qwazse

Shooting Sports Weekend. Rock Climbing. Visit the County Jail.or State Police Barraks. Fly Fishing. Serve at a Soup Kitchen. Visit a Farm (sleep in a hay loft). Hold a square dance (invite sisters and girlfriends). Oops, I got my venturing hat on ... But I bet certain troops could do that as well.

I love Question Time ... the parliamentary one, not the TV show. I like the TV show (think I saw it once) ... there's just no way to improve on the back-and-fourth of British MPs! This is usually a classroom project in most of our schools, and usually involves a lot of chaos unless the kids have been brought up with rules of order (which they mostly haven't). Our venturers should be hosting ethical controversies. But few are very interested in doing so. The real trick is to choose a room where the acoustics favor the speaker. Also you need ways of casting votes by the end of the debate (colored marbles that voters place into bins representing rank-order of preference might work well in your case).

Controlling co-leaders who never of wanted the kids to be disappointed were one of the reasons I joined this forum. So, you all may be preaching to the choir. I'd like hear from folks with dissapointmentphobia. What drives it? If you used to have it, how did you get beyond it?

Welcome! Most of us don't know what else to say either, but we somehow manage to blather on ...

No offense JG, but when I see "very sad", I usually expect it to be about a scout or scouter dying. This may be "pathetic", but not something that should bring you to grief. Life is feeding you lemons, so ... Keep taking your boy camping ... with our without his troop! (So I think we've advised you before.) Visit both troops, ask your son which he think is best for him. Be honest with him abut costs like time and money shuttling to another town. In your town, ask if there would be community leaders (not necessarily in scouts) who would like to help you sit on EBoR's. Trust me, your DE would like that prospect. Look for young adults of noble character in your town who would be willing to assist the SM. Look to your den parents. Even the ones who've sat on their hands until now. Are any of them better suited to scouting than cubbing? Bring them and their boy along on your father-son campouts. (I think you get where I'm going with this.) This might mean you begging off a couple of pack activities. (Note: you don't have to leave your current pack if your son winds up in a different CO's troop!) But, part of your job is to find your replacement. Sounds like its time to start now because if you're like me the right guy is not waiting to pop out of the woodwork. Oh, and here's hoping that lemonade will be surprisingly good!

" ... I guess I try to much to be a people pleaser....I do not want any of the boys to be disappointed ..." This theme is either explicit or an undercurrent of many recent threads (including an article in Scouting magazine on pinewood derby races). What is preventing people from realizing that there's no real pleasure for a boy to receive a reward: that his buddy got even though he didn't even care to work toward? that represents some compensation for the subtle quirks of physics and track engineering that led his car to not win its first two heats? that actually promotes values you no longer (or never really did) believe in? Sure your fear of any single boy being disappointed might get every kid to that awards podium kicking and screaming. But in doing so, aren't you really disappointing every boy?

I think it's also because we as a nation now send our young men (and women) to war against "religious zealots" instead of "godless communists". Be that as it may ... C23, I strongly recommend you get your questions (maybe via the SM) to the boy BEFORE the BoR. Your goal should be to help him decide if the Eagle represents his values, NOT to help the board decide for him.

Your husband's history, although unenviable, is not a show stopper. The BSA would consider his application. Have him note it appropriately and let your Charter Organization Representative know. (He/she should be reviewing the application befor signing it anyway.)

That's a huge list. It's not bad. And we've gone through a lot of these at Eagle SMCs to help a candidate prepare for the BoR. I would drop or revise the "yes/no" questions. For example: I would change to: [*]The BSA leaves the definition of God up to you and your parents. How does that help or hinder you in understanding duty to God? Then, say each question in your list out loud in front of a mirror, and based on what you know of the boy and how you feel about the question, keep it or scratch it. Let's face it, a lot of us have a problem with this requirement because it seems like we're asking a boy to recite from someone else's script. That's not we should be doing here. The assumption should be that a boy has gathered some sense of a higher power in the passed few years, and he should be able to give you his perspective on what that is and is not.

Thanks for being persistent. And, your location isn't necessary. Any strategies that get offered are not going to be easy ... that is if you want "easy" to mean free of emotional trauma. Frankly, this is one of those "only way out is through" issues and the most successful path is going to be full of near-term heartache with the hope that these boys and parents will be grateful to you in the long run. Based on what you just said, you doubt that these boys have a scout's honor. Basically everyone's trust was betrayed, you were thrown into a new leadership position, and all the other parents are stuck asking things like "Can I trust my boy with these leaders?", "Is my boy's honor sullied by association?" and on the flip side a few parents may be asking (without telling you or anyone) "If my boy pulls a bone-head move like this, how will he be treated?" Ignore the CC's relations. You have the right to demand that he have your back. And if that's too tough for him, have him bring in the COR. You have the right to ask the district to assign you their most seasoned UC ... if there is a someone who's been through this kind of firestorm. And, frankly, you have the right to admit that it's okay if the troop splits for the sake of everyone feeling safe. You're here for the boys and it looks like everyone is trying to keep it together for the boys, but sometimes it's a fella like you who has to call a spade a spade ... for the boys. Two months may not seem like much, but it's enough to lay the groundwork to make some lasting changes in a boy's life. If he's willing. That's why I suggested throwing down the "3 consecutive meeting" criterion for the first SMC. It gives them a chance to prove they really want to make good, and gives you a chance to simmer down, and process a flood of ideas.

What T2E said, but I would say that youth membership includes an opportunity to advance. Don't want them advancing? Don't have them as members.

SSScout, that could be a helpful article for C23's scout. We want to help a boy manage his doubts. Maybe he doesn't believe in God as folks have spelled out to him, but through helping others or being kind to animals he acts in a way that any God he'd respect would honor. We've coached our boys in similar situations on how to put words to those thoughts. Most of our boys who don't practice religion have been positively influenced by Christians. So often they can talk about those influences and how they apply what they've learned from their Christian friends (being a cheerful giver, helping the poor, even your enemy, etc ...). I can see something similar happen if our boys were on the periphery of some other religion. At the same time we encourage them to not say anything they don't believe. The BoR isn't looking for someone who prays 10 times a day and can rattle off 1000 verses. The only boy who should have a problem with Eagle is one who believes religion is a complete waste of time and BSA shouldn't encourage it in any boy.

Well, start by saying your SMC will happen after the scouts 3rd consecutive meeting and first outing attended. You need to see how these boys handle a weekend without their drug of choice. 'Nuff said. The boys need to convince you that they care about growing beyond this. And as the new SM, you really need to get to know these candidates. Leave open the possibility of meeting with a couple of boys at the same time, obviously with an ASM who would be willing to listen to the conversations and help you process what was said. Tune out the parents (have your CC run interference if you have to). These are 17 year-olds. By now they should be able to speak for themselves.

What SSS said, plus nobody has to make rank by B&G ... Only those who make a good faith effort to do each of the requirements.

The things that make me very nervous are 6-month or longer transitions. Really? Ask your son now what kind of mathematics he'll be able to do by the end of May. Betcha he could do it now if he tried. It doesn't hurt to tell your troop (adults and youth) they are at grade C. Just let them know what it will take to be grade A. E94's SM saw there was a problem, covered for it, then basically told the SPL "never again." Honestly, the boy's age made no difference. I've seen this happen to a 15 year old SPL. There's no way of knowing in advance who has the skill and who doesn't. You gotta give them that one shot. D01, long leash principle. Let your boys know that you want to let the leash out quickly. That way they can herd sheep while you just whistle from the opposite hillside. The whole "spectrum not a condition ..." rhetoric is a quote from one troop. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion. The title should have been "So, your troop fails at scout-led?" because it basically suggests how to get back on track. It's not really about how scout-led might look for 11 year-olds on their first campout vs. 15 year-olds gearing up for next year's super-activity.

Koolaid ... it's still a thing. Oh yeah!!! Like Pack, said, it's a clever business model. As such, it can be manipulated to protect unneeded positions in the face of shrinking membership. Or, it can be used to multiply the efforts of diverse volunteers in a variety of situations. The real issue is figuring out what is being supported by the revenue to council. If they only exacted 1%, but was for programs that merely made more adults look like third-world dictators, I'd spit nails. Actually, I'd ask my COR to attend council coordinated meetings and spit nails on our behalf. On the other hand, if one CSDC in a needy area is being fully underwritten by five other CSDC's, I might sit on my hands. It's just like I teach my Sunday School kids: when you go to pick a church to join, ignore the order of service, the music, the "quality youth program", the statements of faith, etc ... and ask to see the annual financial statements. If what's going out is going where you think it should, then that congregation is worth your time and $$.

Well, we on the SM/ASM side have tried to help boys provide a meaningful dialogue on this before sending them to a BoR. Even our least religious scouts have been able to make some connection between implicit beliefs and their sense of morality. So, since I have never dealt with a scout in this position, take what I have to say with a grain of salt ... First of all, there is no "magic question" that will help a boy re-think his stance the night of a BoR. Nor should there be. It's okay if a scout who is godless suddenly realizes that Duty to God is part of the award. But it's wrong to try to fix it then and there. That said, here are some things we ask in scoutmaster conferences, and maybe you want to be sure someone goes over with your scout this month ... What is morality? Where do your sense of morals come from? Why would you want an award that affirms your "Duty to God"? What to you think of other scouts' pursuit of religion? How important is it to ensure another person's practice of religion as he/she sees fit? Do you ever look at everything around you as some kind of miracle? How important is it to you that the best explanation for all things excludes intervention from a higher power? There are also no "magic answers" that you should be looking for. This is an opportunity for the boy to decide if the values of scouting resonate with his values. Tell him that there are more important things than "fitting in" and accepting an award that dishonors his beliefs.

Thanks, E94. So, I think my bottom line is we wouldn't replace the "Trained" strip (for venturers that would be ILSC) with the NYLT strip. Somehow, the we'd try to fit both on the sleeve ... the NYLT strip taking the place of the brownsea strip, which according to you would be above the unit #s, and all other patches being moved down. However, since the NYLT strip (if it's the one that E441) referenced does look so much like a trained strip, I think putting it underneath the ILSC would be acceptable. But again, the venturer might be running out of "real-estate" on the sleeve. In which case, I'd opt for neat appearance and swap out the ILSC. So, C2116, your youth has options. Let us know what he chooses. (P.S. - Readers in internet land, please, nobody go to national crying for a definitive ruling on this. )

TAHAWK, all of that double-speak in the article is a PC way of saying "If your troop is making steady C's (adults uncomfortable in spite of youths' confidence), here's one possible strategy to change that ..." I agree that (lacking some real obvious behavioral disorder) adults replacing them as leaders is the wrong way to go. It is, in fact, allowing D grades (both adults and youth lose confidence in youth leadership) in some instances in hopes that they will make A's in other areas ... and maybe after they take remedial classes like ILST will they make high marks in those problem areas.

Oh, I remember that thread. Bead-envy, it's a nasty business. Back to the insignia issue. I might take back my glib statement about sewing it on the sleeve. Here's a diagram that puts the Brownsea strip below the unit numbers and above the position patch: http://www.scoutinsignia.com/brownsea.htm So, if the venture has both this and a Trained patch for his/her specific position, this is a way to present both. The insignia guide says nothing about it. So it's up to you to determine if wearing both patches is reasonably in compliance with current uniforming standards.

Ten minutes after midnight and I was promoting venturing to three young ladies, one of whom put our next meeting into her calendar. (At least that's what I think she did instead of tweeting about some creepy guy trying lure her into the woods.) A few more conversations like that, and we might be back to an A grade. (Refer to my reply to TAHAWK's post.)

Looks like a "trained" strip. Put it on the sleeve like it's a trained strip. E94, confused. Youth take WB, they get beads. Do you have youth staffing WB?