qwazse

Our church would rather us attend to making sure things are in order for their nonprofit pre-school that uses the facility the other 5 days of the week. We do. Pastor's grateful. But, when they were in financial straits, we considered throwing in from our funds for the electric. They would have none of it. Frankly, a lot of our boys aren't that great with positions of responsibility. (It's not that they wont do the job, it's that they pitch in on every other job so much that you lose track of who's wearing what patch.) So, having a church who needs a scout to head up a service project is pretty handy. That way, the boy may report something specific at his board of review. "So, son, how did you perform as librian?" "Well, sir, not many pamphlets were being checked out. So, I pulled up the old carpet from a preshool room." Committee scratch heads over requirments as written. -- Priceless!

Things often don't make sense looking in from the outside. Chances are there was a decision to adjust things for a particular problem at the time. Personally, I don't see how "collections" and "elections" are linked at all. But this downstream effect was probably one the adults or boys (there's really no telling who) were willing to put up with. Our troop was down to one patrol and the boys insisted on having Son #2 as SPL, their persistent logic, "He's leading, he's a senior, and we're a patrol." Nothing I said could disavow them of that notion. The PLC should be free to eventually ask the question "Should do things differently?"

Most IH's would not want to overstep the COR's selection of adult leaders. And it doesn't sound like you need that kind of intrigue. You'll want both of them to get on the same page about Erstwhile Hothead. That means the two of them having an open conversation with him about their apprehensions. Then leave the decision up to them. Heck, leave the room, maybe even the building when it happens.

Well, at least it's subsidizing as much scout as possible for the dollar!

I don't think with this type of solicitation, any of the money can go to the pack. The pack, may, however, make money by having the boys provide a service (e.g., cold drinks, custom t-shirts) during the event. There is paperwork involved (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf), and you should talk to someone at your council service to see what the chances are of your plan being approved.

Noble goals indeed. I think there are plenty of ways to have a light hand in the SPL's mentoring.each troop is different regarding this. The main thing: no matter how busy the SMs are, make sure they arrange time for after action review with the SPL. This is especially difficult with high school age youth. The coffee comment applies to older SPLs ... you may find the only time for AAR is while the patrols are working on breakfast and you all are boiling up a pot. Sure, this can be a sacred time for adults, but from this side of the Internet, @@Eagle94-A1, you don't seem to maintain boundaries very well. That's a compliment.

I've spent a lot of time with amputees. They can do everything the rest of us can ... until they can't. A scouter can be just as impatient with a kid who hits that wall as those ASMs who were up in arms about imc's son. Or, he can start with whatever limitations the boy has and grow from there.

I was a scout a little more than 30 years ago, and like @, my SM had roughly the same procedure. For upper ranks he created a file on each scout. Kept it beside his shoe box full of pictures and organ pipes needing repaired. My brother was a scout almost 60 years ago. Some kid not getting a medal would not generate much outcry among the miners, shepherds, and veterans to whom we sold beer.

Not gonna lie, a one/legged one/armed kid would be rough on our troop. We hike. Lots. The patrol that got that kid would have to revise their hike plan. Some of them might have had a vision of scaling some peak next year and will have to settle for a short hike and overnight camp with their buddies until they figure out the adaptations they need. On the flip side, they might incorporate more acquatic activities, or downhill skiing. But that would mean changing attitudes because they got in the habit of minimal acquatics for the sake of the scout whose disabilities prohibited swimming. Lets make it 12. Thrifty: they squandered dozens of man-hours bending the ears of committee and other unit leaders so they could take the easy way out rather than getting on with hiking those miles down the hard road.

Not sure that's a bad thing. But, my brother is not an Eagle because an SM went AWOL with all the troop's blue cards and no other scouter was around to back him up and encourage him to hike over to the next nearest troop and figure out how to reconcile matters. So, I don't see a meticulous advancement chair as a bad thing either.

Signing adult on is between the COR and IH. Leave it there. The wannabe ASM's a big boy. If he cares, he can go to them with hat and hand begging for a trial run by using some variation of @@moosetracker's bleeding heart speech. The current SM may "have no problem", but unless he's enthused about this guy, this is a non-essential issue. If you're assisting the SM, do what he asks you. If not, tell him you're not and look for another "patch." How is this complicated? I've mentored SPLs ... it especially helps take the pressure off when they are SM's sons. Get the kid to read the SPL's handbook. Get him to some leadership course. Show him the ILST syllabus. Give him the paperwork he needs and the SM's phone number so he can schedule meetings efficiently. Get him into the habit of communicating plans with the SM (copying you if via E-mail) and reminding PLs of tasks (copying you and the SM if via E-mail). Arrange for a scoutmaster conference in a couple of months to evaluate. Edited: Oh and teach him how to operate your coffee pot.

Agreed there is a fine line between self-advocacy and entitlement. In cases like these, I side with the SM. He sets the tone for how he wants his boys to act (and be acted upon). If he wants his assistants to train for working with particular youth, they should train, no questions asked. If a PL needs to adjust his hike plan or maybe have a disabled kid's parent follow along at a distance or meet at a few checkpoints, the adjustments need to be made before the plan is approved. I'll respect any adult who, being at loggerheads with the SM, moves along and starts his/her own unit. It happens. Make it work. But I've learned when adults malign the youth (or hard-working adults) in my unit through district/council channels, to treat it as a personal affront. I summon what little Christian character I have to avoid vulgarity, but I make my displeasure very clear to the folks next up on the organizational chart* and in writing ... copying the offender and offended. That way, it is clear that I will continue to do what I do and I expect everyone to fall in line .... no "select committee" gatherings required. *Or down, if, like me, you've inverted the chart to interpret it correctly.

Same station, same news hour, sometimes even the same day you'll hear a story on the shennanigans at national, then a special interest story on some massive Eagle project or some scout in a minority neighborhood making Eagle 'round here. Then there's the best medium, talking to strangers. Last month on the bus home, as we passed the cemetary, I pointed out to some kids and their mom, "My scouts put up all those flags. They got scouts from all over the neighborhood to help them. Maybe when you're older you can help too."

Even though you are leaving, have pity on the SM and apologize for leaving him stuck with these intransigent adults. Make sure he is welcome to your family activities (i.e., any courts of honor or award ceremonies or campfires ... if he is in the vicinity). He might just need the company away from these people from time to time. I'm sure most of the troops the DE rattled off will take you and your son on a provisional basis. Frankly, if you were willing to come camping with your son and could handle the late fees and the trip to western PA in two weeks, I'd gladly dump you on my SM! Heck, we've taken similar boys without their parents. Not gonna whitewash how tough it is for the kids with Asbergers, but it doesn't hurt for the average patrol to have to deal with one. Do keep in mind, that there is some truth to the notion that others might not want to be in a troop with a disabled scout. That's a tough nut to swallow. But, it sounds like your district has a few hard-nosed leaders that aren't gonna give a rodent's donkey about unit membership statistics. P.S. - the "car starting" business ... I missed that earlier. That will be an awesome campfire story in a couple of years once the pain of this little circus wears away! Hope your son can bring himself to retell it from his perspective one day.

Yes the economy is a factor but ... If the vision of scouting excludes the big ticket items, it's not so expensive .... Definitely less expensive than soccer. And more utilitarian ... my boys and girl use their hiking boots more than their cleats. So, when you presented your program, did you mention high adventure and jamboree and your council summer camp? Or ... - did you emphasize that those things were not central to your program? - did you point out that your older boys hand down uniforms and gear? - did you say the boys could build their own program including their own summer camp? - that in a couple of years, you envision these boys walking around their community on their own, lending a hand wherever they see it, making tough times bearable? Are you willing to scale your program down to, say, $350/year and call back those parents with a program they might be able to afford?

Why not produce 25 and be prepared for the next 3 years?

That may be true. But with the autism spectrum kids it may not be enough. It takes a truly gifted patrol leader to help everyone keep it together. On the other hand, I have observed that if these kids can hold out through these orienting years, they can make stellar leaders. By ignoring emotional cues, they get their boys to focus on the tasks at hand. The SM is not battle hardened. (For those of you who've never had anybody in your unit or district come after a youth of yours like this, consider yourselves lucky. All I have to say is that no kid should have to endure such perplexity.) His position is not one of diplomacy. He needs to quickly be able to say, "These are my boys. I know their faults, and I'm keeping them all. You are too." Then the CC should tell everybody to step in line ... next order of business. Any other course of action gratifies meddling adults with more time and attention than they deserve.

When some fearmongering "commissioner" can hop on a forum and paint a picture where "Jimmy the Retarded Scoutmaster allows a group of unprepared 12 year olds to conduct their own overnight outing" (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/adult-free-outings/#post-39683), then use it as an excuse to justify a blanket prohibition against what is still permitted in the current patrol leader's handbook ... I think it's reasonable to expect continued declines in membership. With a misguided vision that pitches activities where adult chaperons are required to justify your existence, your teen audience shrinks drastically: If your vision his H/A and Jambo, you will ultimately attract the 5% of scouts who look forward to doing either. If your vision is some kid being rewarded Eagle or Summit or Botswain ... you will ultimately attract the 5% of youth who do that. If your vision is some super-survivalist reality show hero ... maybe 5% there. Mix and match STEM, varsity, etc ... account for overlap ... I'm suspecting membership to level of at 20% of its 2000 number over the next few decades. It might change if the vision returns to: simply hiking and camping independently with your mates using first class skills ... that vision is already instilled in most kids via other media (your average teen anime has a scene or two of youth in the woods by a campfire ... ). And most of us know it is readily accessible to most of our youth. simply calling an access van for a weary senior citizen ... that vision is in the back of most adults' minds. (Most of us can't imagine having streets to cross in our future. ) That's what we have to sell to the 80% of youth in our country. The other stuff, although very cool, is the exception.

Um, duh? There is a certain loosening of definitions with National that makes them interpret what scouters do in the best possible light. A prerequisite is generally used to speed along the class of boys who will show up at camp wanting to earn a MB in one week. So, probably, someone sits and thinks "Well, if the week starts out stormy and these boys can't hit the water, if they have Swimming, we can sign-off on the swim requirements, and they can start in on that 400 yards as soon as the sky clears." This is a convenience for the instructor, but as we've seen, it can come off sounding like "don't even bother showing up," from the mouth of the kid's advancement coordinator. Later this kid is the one eleven year-old whose family's boat capsizes and he's the only one concious with some rope and floats and no clue how to remedy the situation. Same for the wilderness survival. Some kid wants to dive in learning steel wool and batteries. You'd like to think that the kid (say an SPL) would have learned how assmble tinder and start a one-match-fire (rather than, say, using his ASM's entire box ... not that the ASM would be bitter about it 10 years after the fact ). But that's often not the case, and you would really like to speed training along. So, tell kids they should have have lit a few one-match fires, and sure a few might come better prepared for the course. But, somewhere there's an SM or advancment chair who won't let little Smokey take the class because he has not demonstrated sufficient skill with phosphorous sticks. And wouldn't that be the kid who finds himself stranded... needing to stave off hypothermia in a battery powered golf cart with a carton of steel wool, but no matches because dad begged off smoking that year? We always explain to the boys, if they haven't met the pre-requisites for camp, expect a partial either because they will have in effect missed a requirement or won't have the skill down pat enough to demonstrate it by the end of the week. There are plenty of young adults (my sons included) who will attest to the consequences of leaving too many loose ends. Counselors, strike while the iron's hot and teach whoever is willing, give partials to whoever comes up short. Advancement chairs, never take the word "pre-requisite" too literaly.

@@DuctTape, I'd agree with you if the avarice came from more than just one boy and his family. But, this family (probably one parent) is trying to dictate the troop's values (probably to the convenience of their son). That is an unhealthy scenario. In my unit (the crew, not the troop) I am the quintessential pain-in-the-butt leader. I'll take all kinds of advice from adults, and nod my head politely, then do whatever is likely to my judgement represent the decision of who is doing the most work for my youth. In my SM's unit (the troop) I allow him to be the quintessential pain-in-the-butt leader. He can take my advise or leave it. If the latter, I suck it up and do what he thinks is best assisting him as best I can. These folks are trying to blurr those lines. They may be badmouthing a boy. But in doing so, they are badmouthing an SM who chose to keep this young man in his troop. If for no other reason than to know that his chain is being yanked, the SM needs to be confronted with the facts and asked to stand up for his boys.

Like I said in the previous post, your scoutmaster should request that these people be removed from the commissioners corps for defaming your troop to other scouters. A phone call to the scout executive should do it. When I was being bullied in grade school, Mama put up with my whining and tears, then gave me one piece of advise: "Get big."

I have a friend who teaches Western history and literature at a fairly prestigious college. When he started his carreer, he asked all of his social media friends to help by replying to him with bogus answers to certain of the multiple choice questions. Great fun for all of us. Later he'd report whose answers were the winning decoys (i.e., the most students wrongly selecting a that reply). More often than not, the decoys many degrees of separation from the right answer were selected the most. The ones quite close (at least, that I would have chosen) were rarely selected. Anyway, all the best to your newbies. If they stick with it, they will definitely change troop culture. (Hopefully by bringing more non-cubs and increasing the level of cluelessness.) But, most years that's quite refreshing.

Many units have done that sort of thing. It's not always a workable policy. Its success really depends on how much the DL can rely on den chiefs and other parents to run the program while they review handbooks.

"He who would be greatest let him be the servant of all ...." Organizational charts are best worked turned upside down.

The district next to ours has no bus service and uses student crossing gaurds, they have an adult guard at each school's entrance. And kids from that neighborhood do seem to walk around a lot more!