qwazse

Having a brother in this situation (albeit less of a paper trail), I've avoided replying. So far @@packsaddle's attitude is the one I think he would like to hear.

Exactly where does BSA tell a boy "Ask your leader?" And what leader handbook or training syllabus lists those "specific events" when a member should not wear the field uniform? Who among us spends a lot of time finely parsing BSA rules and regulations? (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/BSA_Rules_and_Regulations.pdf) Some general principles there, but no "list." I'm not finding anything that tells me I have to warn a kid not to uniform while working a community-oriented aspect of a MB.

I guess this is one area where I would never bother to run it up the chain. The boy has a handbook, it says a little bit about when a uniform should be worn and how. I'd like the boy to learn from his references before being spun round by other folks' explainations. Just like if a kid's wondering about our location during land navigation, I would never tell a kid, "ask your patrol leader". I would reply "What does the map say? What does the compass say?" ... "Do you think you should bring up what you just read with anyone?" You asked the question faster than I could answer it.

I think this falls under "project for the organization involving all sorts of folks" who are representing their respective constiuencies by coming together to do good. He should wear it, if he doesn't mind a potential stain from glue or what-not. (Think of it as supplemental merit-badge regalia.) Leave ceremonial stuff, like sashes or medals, at home. He will find in life that what other people do will be of little consequence to what he does. (His children may be irritated by his various excentricities, but what else are kids for?) The issue boils down to: Is he proud to be a scout? Is he proud to be working on a MB? Is he proud of his troop? Is he proud of the other patches on his uniform?

I'd say it depends on the type of service. If it is fundraising for an organization, he should not. If it is a work project within the organization -- especially one that involves all sorts of folks, he probably should. If it is a back-office kind of job, it doesn't matter. Son #2 volunteered at the church nursery with his friends from Sunday school. It's a back office kind of job. They all knew he was a scout. He was doing it for God as much (maybe more) than for a patch, so he didn't wear a uniform.

Here's what we have trouble with: expecting from training (e.g., anything from my simple minded RT exercises to Powderhorn) what only comes from discipleship (what @@Stosh and @@SeattlePioneer described).

I've put scouting under hobbies/volunteer organizations. I've also included Eagle Scout under awards. Years after the fact, I don't think these things helped during screening. But they helped extend conversations during the interview.

Regarding specific "how to's" from my brainstormed list: you know better than to ask me for more rules! IMHO, it would be funny, and a great point of discussion if one table did buck the system and downloaded their "snapshots" from the internet. The small scale is to cut costs for materials and speed production (and dismanteling). You want things to finish (or for some folks, get partially started), so that you have time to introduce other topics. Why? Fun. Or perhaps a better word: sheer joy. And fellowship. Sometimes, it's fun to see a group of boys demonstrate a scenario for all the scouters so scouters think: "I wish my boys would do that." "My boys could do that!" "Did they do that right?" and boys think: "I'm so cool doing this!" "I wonder if other patrols could do this." "I wonder how many scouters could do this better than us." It's okay if some scouters don't know the skills and other scouters might need to lend a hand. That's the point. Leave a little room for a light-bulb to go off "Hey I could stand to learn/re-learn this." or "My scouts and I could invite this guy to see how it's really done." Plus, if there are a few flimzy towers, it's a good segue into that safety reminder about structure heights. The not-so-hidden goal is to give folks an experience from which the offer of training opportunities becomes desirable. The actual way you pitch "how to take what we've done to the next level" will vary. It may be a couple of bullet points on safety. It may be an after action review. It may be an inspirational meditation. It may be the invititation to a camporee, UoS, or specialized training weekend.

Let's take a step back from all of the "adventure preparedness" stuff and think about the last district roundtable when before the breakout sessions: A bunch of sticks and twine was dumped at each table of scouters and everyone was given 20 minutes to lash together a 1/4 scale pioneering project. Scouts got to demonstrate 1st aid, by selecting a scouter, decking him out in stage makeup, and presenting a scenario. Someone actually acted out being a scout with Asbergers who asked to get in a car with an older (yet under driving age) scout who was at the wheel. A compass and flashight was at each table and with headings for a 15 minute night navigation course (inside or outside of the building). Each table list of plants and animals and 20 minutes for a scavenger hunt (making sure one person at each table had a mobile phone). Scouters saw where they were a little rusty, but experienced DURING THE MEETING just what fun scouting could be. Some clever scouter threw in a scoutmaster minute after any of the above? So, now, think about how the average scouter at your average round-table feels about training if he/she never has any of this as a teezer! Here, I'm not talking about "drilling" like I mentioned earlier. But just about having good, clean, fun. Enough so that people get to recognize who in the room might be worth sending their boys to for a MB or maybe contacting when time does come to build an adventure. @@andysmom is not far off with the "why" of outdoor training. Sure we have the textbook responses. But the more visceral reason is that you feel so much better about yourself when these resourcefulness excersizes help you to reflect on your place in the wide world.

I'm afraid that we're all so busy training that none of us (unless your jobs mandate it) spend time actually drilling in rapid response. Less training, more drills. More 1st Aid meets. More water rescue drill during open swim (simple stuff, like who can identify -- among the guards still in the water -- the "tired swimmer"). More land nav competitions with the local orienteering club. For example, an RT drill: bring some NWS forecasts and evaluate go/nogo decisions for the next day, next two days. Or circulate maps with hike plans A, B, and C for boys of different levels. Then, good after action review with someone who can give you a score or ranking. I would suggest that every scouter get in the habit of helping youth plan independent hiking and camping. Judge their limitations, have them adjust their plans accordingly. But, someone is going to spout off about "Jimmy the Retarted SM" and G2SS blah, blah, blah ... I don't need to go back to training every two years. I need to go back when I'm not executing flawlessly during drills. No drills? No way to know when I need to be trained. (At this age, I sometimes feel like I need to go back every year!) And, certainly, going over recent tragedies can be part of the drill.

Of course you've gotta pay! That's why it's voluntary. The gvmnt can't take it from you before you earn it. And it's on you to give it to them. From the source you cite: "A minor who works and earns more than the standard personal exemption has to file a tax return, according to IRS Publication 929. The amount of the exemption isn't set in stone but increases over time to account for inflation." Which means that someone who nets less than $4K does not have to file. (This year. If any of you in the future read this, you can contact the IRS or local library - if they still exist - to determine the standard personal exemption in your wrinkle of space-time. ) The catch: that applies to wages, not self-employment if the net exceeds $400, and this kid (along with other crafstmen, consultants, tutors, etc ...) might fall into the category of sole proprietorship.

That's crap, it's a voluntary tax system. We all participate in it. Know thy brackets. Live well. Or, work through this ... http://www.irs.gov/uac/Do-I-Need-to-File-a-Tax-Return%3F I guess it really hinges on the kid being considered self-employed, and calculating his net earings correctly. It's a darn shame when a youth who couldn't afford camp makes a nominal windfall -- most of which he gives away -- and folks think he needs to hire a professional to keep the tax man from knocking at at his door. Seriously, they have bigger axes to grind. If he's netting more than 4K, he would do well to hire a financial planner who could help him shelter that to meet is goals for personal security and public charity.

It's about 4k.If his is a small troop, he could have definitely earned under that amount and afforded to underwrite their camp. It's not entirely clear if socking away funds for your own future mission is sheltered. I don't see the tax man raising an eyebrow over this.

there are Reasons for quitting not that are not on the rechartering form, my most popular one:Refusal to pay the increased registration fee. For the money, I can go hiking an camping independently now, thank you very much.

Raising kids is not cheap, but kids are some of the most cost effective labor a neighborhood has. However, many kids don't know how to leverage that. The point of troop fundraising, IMHO, is to teach boys to sell something useful to meet financial goals. Like most things, a kid isn't usually going to make a windfall, and a family has to decide if and how to bail him out. The question a family should ask: is he meeting the family needs in other areas, and how much is that worth to us? In our family, with our kids, there was no excuse for anything lower than a B in any class no matter how hard. (It's their fault, they kept jawing about wanting to be engineers, doctors, scientists and researchers.) In my mind, that equates to extracting real value from taxpayer dollars. So we paid for a lot of other stuff because they got job #1 right. Nothing about the council fundraising process is designed to manage windfall gains by one scouting family. If the IRS came knocking, the boy would write off the paint and his payroll and itemize a charitable contribution deduction.If on the other hand ... Is buddies in the troop want to help him ride the wave, submit a plan to council with a goal of filling 2000 orders of pallet flags.

A couple of years ago, we were having so many ECoHs that SPL and SM couldn't attend all of them, so starting with one Son#2 and I were working, I modified scripts with more generic names, SaA and MoC. If your troop only gets recruits via Webelos, I suppose you would use "crossover." But about half our scouts are in troop/crew situations where it could be a 14 year old's first time to sleep under canvass (or open sky, in the case of one venturer), so "newbie" covered everyone present.

Glad you liked it. BTW, I make no qualms about offending anybody. I just wanted to provide an example of how to guide boys who aren't versed in religion to assemble something that comes from the heart. The group who heard this was Christian (of various sects), and they had all heard the classic version that intertwines Bible verses with the 12 points. They certainly wouldn't have minded hearing it again, but Son #2 wanted a brief ceremony, and I wanted to focus on the boys' memories (some glorious, some tragic). These lines were boiled down from what the boys or others said about the troop/crew over the past few years. I knew I hit it out of the park when the SPL gave the script the once-over and his eyes lit up when he came to this page.

Don't let the "third world generals" fool you. Your first two "hurdles" are not requirements for any district position! That may be why some volunteer positions in your district are not being filled. Nobody thinks they're qualified for them. Raising 7 kids maybe should be a requirement. You an the Mr. are working the patrol method 'round the clock! Time is the big thing, but I'm just putting "the bug in your ear," because, well, you seem to be a quick study ... capable of finding a task you can do and chipping away at it. By the time Jr. sticks you with that "Eagle mom" pin, you'll be plenty credentialed.

From a guy who stayed in the background at the cub level ... I had three kids coming down the pipe ... one likely to head toward GSUSA (although that only lasted half a year). I was as non-committal as I could be. Needed fire? I'd light it. What bug is that? I'd identify it. Want canvas up? I (along with another non-committal dad) was on it. Mobile kitchen? The family camp box was tossed in the van (table cloth included). Coffee? If you could handle espresso, it was ready for you. Silly songs and dances? Oh yeah! Science projects? Boom! Committee meetings and round tables? Not on your life! I had just come off of serving on a contentious church board and needed to find my soul again and it wasn't gonna be around a table of "decision makers." God bless my DL, she tried to call a meeting during camp seista time and me and my other "non-committing buddy" made a be line for our tent, keeping all flaps up so we could be observed napping from 360-degrees! Then, come crossover, I was really ready to assist. Did a sting as MC, then someone tossed me an ASM patch. Then Son's girlfriends wanted Seabase and Daughter was hating GS, so I knew if she was to mature in her love for the outdoors, I needed to do something about it. Thus venturing. My point: don't look at everyone as though you are grooming them for your unit. You might just be there to help them find their niche somewhere down the road.

Love that Jr. knows what to do with his free time! BTW how are those bugle calls coming? @@christineka, ask someone in your church or community who is an electrician or electrical engineer if they would go through the trouble of registering with the BSA as an MBC. Now that you know what it's like to be a mom with an ambitious kid, you might want to think about filling that vacant district position.

So, not to keep you on the therapists' couch any longer than necessary ... but you haven't really addressed the 2nd half of your title:"how Wrong We Were To Join This Troop" I know you were being rhetorical, but this is where you want to think carefully (maybe including your son in the discussion) before you continue visiting other troops. Well, how wrong you were depends on what you were looking for. If you were looking for top-down adults-in-the-business-of-everything a kid does organization that would protect your son from potentially mean boys, you were quite right. If you were looking for something where the boys took responsibility for each other, and worked hard to figure out the quirks and be quick to forgive. While the adults coached from a distance ... well you missed the signs. So, what are you and your son gonna look for now that you weren't looking for before?

No reason for them to know ... There's only one space to sign for the requirement, if I recall. But, our advancement chair does keep on top of those things.This lot doing any form of demolition out of sheer boredom ... Now that's funny. Their sisters, on the other hand ...

For Son #2's ECoH, I took a slightly different take ... touching on some of the favorite activities of our boys, the sergeant at arms called up a recent alumnus to read this while lighting 12 candles: The scout law reminds of the essential things people have come to expect from first class scouts. Trustworthy: what the climber needs when you are on his belay. Loyal: what your countrymen need when it’s time to take a stand. Helpful: how tents get pitched, wood gets chopped, and meals get served. Friendly: what the newbie needs on his/her first night in the woods. Courteous: what people need to feel respected and glad to know you. Kind: what people and wildlife need from you to grow strong and good. Obedient: what the rangemaster, lifeguard, and all those guides, need to provide a safe experience for you and your mates. Cheerful: what bad days need for everyone to enjoy a new dawn. Thrifty: what super-activities need for you to afford them. Brave: what people need from you during those dark hours. Clean: what our minds need to stay true and our bodies need to stay strong. Reverent: what our soul needs when we’ve come short in any of the above, or when we want someone to thank for all of the above. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

So ... it would be interesting (and challenging) to add another article on scouting's innovators (or as some here might say, heretics) since Hillcourt ... at least try to bring it to the close of the century. From folks who influenced the BSA since 1980, whose bios would you want everyone to see?

That's where the CC and a really good cadre of ASM's come in! Also, the emphasis should be on the learning experience. A troop's not gonna fall apart if a boy flounders in his position for a month. But we then need to nudge the kid ... "How do you think you can do this better? What are we going to see from you next month?" I think that's where the idea of election cycles might help some boys. If they know they are "locked in" for a few months ... with the expectation they do better each month, they might respond to each other a little bit better. Here's a tangent: what do you all do with the position patches? Do the boys return them/swap them around at the end of their term? Does the troop order them? Does the boy go to the scout-shop?