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@@Krampus, what I'm saying is that it's not just the standards (which are admirable BTW), it's the enthusiasm of the boys. If they are enthusiastic about advancement, it'll work. If they could care less about advancement but are enthusiastic about executing each campout flawlessly, it'll still work. If they are enthusiastic about fellowship because the 15 minutes of dodge ball and 5 minutes of silly songs, it'll still work. If you have a steady stream of boys who are enthusiastic about the same general things one formula works perfectly, until you get a half-dozen odd ducks (like one of those patrols your SPL is up in arms about) who will come and go and make your stats look bad ... unless you figure out how to get under their skin.

The clearances go directly to council HQ. Any volunteer who does not have all of their clearances on file will be dropped from the charter. The unit just gets paper copies as back-ups.

To balance my reporting ... although we didn't harp on the definition of "active", I routinely made declarations like: The SM and I don't care about the patch on your sleeve, if you didn't do the work, you didn't hold the position. If you're not wearing the patch, but you do the work, guess what position you're holding? If you're not at a meeting we'll miss you. Let your PL know so we don't worry! If you don't know where your boys are, you're not leading. If you do and you don't have the PL patch, you're leading. Think about it. Likewise, now that we've merged troops, I've suggested to the SPL (who just joined my crew) that he have patrols sound off at every meeting just like we've done at summer camp. Being passionate about where your troop/patrol is and what they are doing ... I guess that's "front end" attendance enforcement.

Personally, about 5 more hours of my time I'll never get back. Laurel Highlands council has a site to upload copies of docs. So turning them in isn't so bad. Making sure the two places where I volunteer with youth have everything they need and figuring it all out kills the time. As a unit, I've had to explain this to adults more times than I should ever. And, it's about to gut us! This is more hassle than about half of our adults want to go through. They will just have their registration dropped. I have one college student ASM who needs FBI clearance, and it's taking months. So, he's gonna get dropped until it comes through. In short, it's a mess.

I agree with @@hendrickms24 (welcome to the forums by the way) in that his is a sensible interpretation of policy. If someone asks, that's about what I'd say. But, I agree with @@SeattlePioneer that an SM who goes and throws his sash on is not hurting anybody's order. Nobody would get bent out of shape. It's just not nearly as incendiary as wooden beads!

I think its wrong-headed to use the advancement method to manipulate boys into participating. You're just as likely to get a bunch of boys who abandon advancement. We abandoned our participation percentages years ago, and got just as much activity from our older boys. (The ones also in a crew seemed to participate in troop activities even more than the Troop-only lot.) It's a fair question for boys to try to nail down who is "one of us", but sooner or later they will hit a wall. Like a scout who slacked off attendance after getting Life and three years later is in the paper thanking "his troop (your numbers inserted her)" for the skills needed to rescue somebody from a burning building/ or perform grandly in the school play/ or endure the freezing cold playoff game to win the final. All of a sudden his patrol mates are posting the clipping on their brag wall and there's no amount of waiving some unit policy document that will get them to take it down.

I don't think that's a big enough carrot. (I'm ignoring @@Stosh's condescending attitude towards my metaphor.)Every month, he needs to recognize the successes of the patrols in front of the entire troop. This can be as simple as having each PL report his patrol's accomplishments. Then distribute attaboys personally to each patrol, offering to up the game of the laggards if their report was lackluster. It could be as complex as an "outstanding program" totem to award and hang on a patrol's flag. If your complainers are like any I know, they are the what's-in-it-for-me types. If so, about the only way to get to them is to point out the fruits of their labors.

Sorry to hurt your feelings. Your gripe has nothing to do with fellas who like to honor neighboring tribes. You don't see your arrowmen doing much. Well, I can't imagine them partying less will make them serve more.

@@Eagle94-A1, you got nowhere to go but up!

I'm visiting the Treasure coast next week, and I make a mean espresso. Just sayin ..

Well, maybe if it was burned on a 1x12 planed board, and the spaces were to be filled in with a CNC router! Every boy is different! Your SPL is looking for a level of accountability that his PL's did not expect to give. He has every right to expect it, but PL's are on a learning-curve and he has to help them surmount it. Bottom line: He has to figure out the best carrot, they have to decide what stick they'll heed. They'll both have to figure out where they will compromise. You might have to figure out how many sandbars this boat is allowed to hit.

You can go real far in and print out a copy, then go back and make changes, before clicking submit. Oh, and on behalf of your unit leader, bless you!

I can lead and serve without setting aside time to enjoy costumes and dance ... but somehow it doesn't come out the same as what's done by these boys who've feebly hearkened back on Native American culture. So, if the flag is somehow substituting for a little of that, then I'd say keep it in the closet. If it's reminding boys of the dances they've seen, fly it proudly.

It's like my SPLs have an evil twin! First, he should be congratulated on identifying the problem. Most young male leaders actually think poor planning is a synonym for spontaneity. He needs to politely point out that if the troop has an outline, there will be more room for fun on its own terms. If not, a visit from the Krampus will be in order. Second, he should consider abandoning electronic forms. If they aren't gonna come up with solid plans when they are in the room jawing with their buddies, they won't when they are staring at whatever screen they are using. It's nothing personal, it's probably just the nature of the PL's he happens to be dealing with. Figuring what medium works best is always a challenge, but it can be half the fun. One month request the plan on used wrapping paper and crayons, the next charcoal on a slate, fabric paint on a neckerchief, painted on a used sign, or carved into a staff. This sounds stupid, but instead of something that is easily copied and forwarded along, it requires peoples' attention to follow. And while each PL is concentrating on how he will out-do the other, a vision of the actual program might just sink into his patrols' psyche. Then, just take a photo of the program as delivered and upload it to the site. Third - and especially if your PLs aren't motivated by the above gimmik, make some phone calls. If these PL's are comfortable with electronic reports, then maybe it's just a matter of calling a few days in advance and saying "Hey, our troop's counting on you. Can you get that program written? Do you need help?" And by help, that may mean paying a visit to the scout's house or meeting someplace with internet access. Things that are real important need a real time investment. If it's any consolation, adults have the same problem -- as evidenced by my CC still having not started our recharter.

This: That's the boy we mould entire troops around. Think out of the box. Trail Life or BPSA or Canoe Trails or the local orienteering club or any other group would love to have you on account of your boy!

Get the boys to give you an idea of what the target should be. Halve that. (They always overestimate how "active" they can be.) If I were to choose a benchmark, it would be something like 2 overnight events in the past three months, 4 in the past six. Eight meetings present or accounted for. (All of those for the PLs -- if you can't let us know you ain't coming, you don't deserve the patch. The ratio of present to accounted for can be up for discussion.)

@@Renax127, you had ASM's who didn't want to assist the SM, that's all there is to it. It was far easier to micromanage your program than to go off and start their own. So let them take over. I get adults not "getting it" and having to bite your lip after using all due courtesy to say it could better be done left up to the boys. That's one reason why I became a crew advisor -- so I'd have a little space to try and lead the way my SM lead me (and later, to try some of the techniques suggested on this forum). Being "the guy" gives a little authority, but doesn't change the culture until adults see youth rise to the occasion or one adult sticks up for you. If you have that one adult who thinks you're insane but will stand by you regardless, it's actually okay even if the boys see the two of you disagree sharply. But, if you don't feel like you can be supportive now that the tables are turned, then walking way until you cross paths with that "sidekick" is the smart thing. Just remember this feeling when you wanna have words with your son's coach or youth leader.

Not going to repeat the advice above, but add to it. If you think you are the best guy for the position, the COR deserves to know you think he made a mistake. Aside from that, don't waste words. If you're concerned about they saw something unlikable in you and didn't tell you, and you could ask for an explanation, but -- only if you think you'd be willing to change. Your son will understand that you didn't get picked to be captain. It happens in school all the time. In fact, most folks around the district would understand that as well. So don't feel like your good name has been tarnished in any way. Definitely shoot for those precious weekends with your son! (Involve the Mrs., as much as she's willing.) As an SM, you would actually have fewer of those than you think.

@@Stosh, as warm and dry as this weekend was, they boys may as well have built a chicken coop instead of a survival shelter! Thanks for the tip, and the advice on exploding. You know, now every boy who reads this page is going to try it! @@RememberSchiff there wasn't to much browse (oddly: lots of oaks, no acorns) where we camped. So no deer eggs. The SM and I did find some bear scat up the hill.

I just mentioned on Byran's blog that the best way to inspire a leader to take woodbadge is for someone who as earned it to come along-side him and selflessly lend a hand in his unit. That's clearly what you need to see happen in your unit with regard to arrowmen. If the scout you two admire the most has that lodge flap, ask him what his lodge may have to do with him being such a great scout. If what he says sounds like something you want go for it! If the scout you admire the most is not an arrowman, then ask him what has helped him be a great scout. Seek that for you and your son. Everyone else, take note. Your actions promote!

On our winter survival weekend this morning , I tried to cook an egg in coals (no paper cup, or anything.) to cook it in. I figured if I cracked the top, it would allow steam to come out the top. I then buried it in coals. It took far longer for the yoke to cook than I would have expected. Shells are great insulators! Any suggestions on how to do it better next time?

War is an awkward name for it for Muslims who consider Dae'sh to be neither Islamic nor State. They would rather us think in terms like "extended gang violence." Not entirely sure I'm buying it

FYI, Lodge life in our council seems to be a lot of fun. Arrowmen are a helpful lot. They've backed me up when I needed help with my Venturing responsibilities. Our troop has a goodly number of 1st class scouts who lose elections, another number who are tapped out, count the cost, and don't do Ordeal (which I take as a good sign that they value it enough not to show up as slackers), a majority who will volunteer if there's a call for Arrowmen to serve, and a minority who attend lodge events regularly. @@koolaidman's advice is spot-on. You'll never know if you don't try. But if you all sincerely have something better to do, no one's gonna be too upset if you take a pass.

Or, just get some crayons and draw up a certificate on parchment paper. Include a random patch from your collection. Boys have access to some pretty good printers these days. Guess how valuable one more certificate is in their little minds?