qwazse

For our routine CoH's (typically on a meeting night at the meeting location with a total of 1 hour): Cookies and soda pop. Sometimes ice cream. Now, for Eagle CoH's: more heavy-duty snacks to full-blown sit-down meals (usually provided by the boy's family) ... depending on how much folks sync it up with graduation parties. I like the "patrol progressive dinner" idea in general. But, I would rather something like that happen out doors where the boys could show some scouting skills: setting up a cooking fire, a tarp for the eating area, dutch-oven desert.

Now comes the tough part of teaching these courses where you ask yourself "How much do I want to be The Guy." Since you got positive feedback, these leaders sound like they trust you. (Either that, or Mormons are just inscrutably nice even on feedback forms.) Get with the course coordinator and see if you can follow-up either by phone or at roundtables in the next couple of months to see if anything you taught actually worked for them! Then see if you can invite them to whatever next class you're gonna teach.

Tell your ASM that he's suffering from overthink. Meanwhile you need help not burning the coffee. This is an opportunity to talk to the boys about how hanging together in one massive patrol may be fun, but it may slow down advancement ... Let's suppose half the boys need to finish this requirement, that means scheduling 6 days of camping so each boy gets to cook. That means obliging the ASM and a buddy on as many days to come camp within 100 yards of you for the sake of adequate overnight supervision. That means more cards, flowers and chocolates to Mrs. ASM and Mrs. Buddy for doing without their spouses for those weekends, which increases everyone's costs. Whereas, two patrols of six (small yes, but leaves room for growth) with each patrol having three scouts who need this requirement. That means maybe three days of camping. Patrols on opposite ends of a 200 yard field with ASM and Buddy in the middle for adequate overnight supervision. Far fewer cards, flowers, and chocolates to Mrs. ASM and Mrs. Buddy -- maybe even "thank yous" from them for babysitting their men while they have a girls night out! Costs contained. A downside is some scout may be stuck as a one-man patrol if his buddy's bail on him. No problem. It'll be his patrol by the book. He can rate his own food, and report in to his patrol leader next meeting for sign-off. Lay it out to the boys something like that. Say that if they are comfortable keeping things the way they are, you'll support them and help the PLC make a long term plan. If they want to give change a try, you'll support them and have the SPL get the new patrol leaders up to speed ASAP. Either way, they'll know that they've done it by the book ... with pride. (Note that, in my framework, this has nothing to do with the ASM or the PL making the decision. It has to do with the boys feeling pride in their work. Assuming that they have sour memories of one Webelos requirement where an adult played the "do your best" card. You will have boys hungering for someone who interprets the program quite literally.)

Isn't it encouraging to observe the "wildlife" from a distance? P.S. -- I hate cabins. If at all possible, I will set up a hammock or a tarp just outside of them. In exchange for enduring cold temperatures, I get a good look at the stars and better sleep in the absence of all the chatter and smells. But, it does give the boys a chance to model basic housekeeping.

First, thanks for your service and welcome to the forums. Second, I hate paperwork and a tour premit for every little Tiger half-day outing does sound ridiculous. That said, if it's the hoop you all have to jump through then you need to find parents willing to jump through it. Your CC and COR need to decide if this leader is delivering the program that the intended, and if not they need to talk to the other Tiger parents and see if there is anyone else willing to do a better job.

I think historical abstraction gets us removed from the concepts we are trying to handle. It took countless leaders at every level to turn the nation from imperial colonialism and a slave trade economy. Management is where you might see leadership come to the fore. However, You could say the same for service, worship, patriotism, friendship, and nearly any other aspect of the scout law. When I ask a youth to take leadership on something, I'm not asking that he or she assign people a series of tasks (although that may be what is in store). I'm asking primarily for him or her to accomplish something in a way that everyone involved will attain a sense of fellowship an comraderie that would not otherwise be shared. If youth stick with me, after a while, they realize that I'm looking for the shy kid being cared for, the ranger at a run down camp getting a phone call about camping/service weekends, the fire attracting so many venturers that the builders drift into the background. And (sometimes) the tired old ASM getting some weight redistributed from his pack.

And without those changes its all downhill from there (well, except for the uphill part of the cross country option)!

All biofilms are possible (given a billion years and as many acres under primordially oscillating conditions)!

@@JasonG172, move more, eat less. You definitely can shed those pounds over the next three years. One scouter I know found a hike in the woods that he took at 5:30 every AM before going to work. An extra couple of miles (and a couple hundred feet elevation change) every day for a year in advance help him shed quite a few pounds and prepared him for the big hills.

Hmmm ... The greatest among you shall be your servant ... Someone should copyright that.

So, I think what these old guys are saying: have your PL's take what the boys are interested in, and take it to the next level. You don't have to figure out what that next level is, you just have to get them to brainstorm about what it could be. Backpacking? Get a trail map of your state unfold it at the hiking patrol's table and ask "Where to next guys?" Fishing? Get a chart of local game fish to the fishing patrol's table and ask "What are you gonna try to catch next?" Swimming? Get that state map and say "Which pool is next?" Baseball? Ask "Who wants to see if they can throw the first pitch at a home opener?" Part of the trick of being an SPL is seeing the talent and nudging the boys to build on it. I call it vision-casting. Now, not all visions are fulfilled. (Some just plain shouldn't be.) But, in the process of casting a vision, a few ideas bubble to the top that, in the process of going for them ... better and better ideas form. The point of going over the list of merit badges isn't to limit you to that list. But to start talking about a topic, then start getting an idea in everyone's head, then start seeing if you can really do that idea.

I would so love to see a venturing contingent to ride in on motorcycles.

I wish I knew about scouter.com!

Welcome to the forums @Schneffler! I think your PLC might be over. But for future reference, you never have to be creative again! I happen to know of a list of 136 possible topics that scouters have found to be of interest to young boys. For each of those topics, you all could probably find an adult to come talk to your troop about it. (In fact, your scoutmaster might already have a list of names of people you all could call for each topic.) but what's more, for each topic there's a list of things that you could "explain", "discuss", or "do". You could spend your entire career as a scout going down this list! It used to be that this list of topics could be had for the price of a handbook, and the things to do for each topic could be had for the price of a pamphlet. But since you seem to have a working browser, you can have that list of cool topics here: http://www.scouting.org/meritbadges.aspx The best part? If you or one of your scouts play your cards (as in blue cards) right, there's a patch you can earn!

"But Mr. @@TAHAWK, Wilderness Survival and Pioneering are not Eagle required. Why should we bother?" Two words son: Catapults Ignition

Interesting to note: "lead" is not in the definition (Webster's or Oxford's) of "run". Adults may play on that and limit "leadership" to the decision-making process. Once boys make up their minds, adults jump through all of the hoops to make it happen. They "run" the program. @@Stosh, no doubt you can expound on how this may conform to a Gnostic ideal. (No offense to any devout Gnostics out there.) A simple example is the Tour Plan ... For a while, I was having my crew president fill it out and give the finished product for review, which I would sign. However, now that that monstrosity is online, the default operation is clearly for an adult (key-three) to operate. Set aside any IT problems there may be with bringing SPLs up to speed with his scouter accounts, etc ... it's quite clear that the design of the tour plan -- even as a piece of paper -- was such that a PL or SPL would never see it. There are definitely troops out there where adults lead (tasking scouts with X, Y, and Z), and they leave it to boys to run everything. I've had my boys' SM's slip into that mode unnecessarily. But, I would say that most scouters, when pressed, envision something that's boy-led/adult-run. They simply can't imagine a youth being concerned about the make, model, and insurance coverage of a driver's vehicle. (Although ... I found that many 16 year-olds are very much attune to such things!) What many adults fail to reflect on is that every task that they run is a squandered opportunity for a boy to lead. So, if you get adults to reflect on the tasks they've taken on ... you're more likely to get them to see the value of a boy exercising leadership via service. When they value service as leadership you then can move everyone to "boy led and run."

Do you, one of your relatives, one of your friends, or a boss have property suitable for 8 boys and a couple of adults (at a slight distance) to camp on? "Hey, I know a great location for your first patrol outing. As soon as you can convince the SM that you've got a good plan!"

There's also cost. It's a better learning experience if he saves up to pay a large part (if not all) of the trip. This may mean managing money, building a track record of perfect grades, or just being significantly more responsible for the family's chores over several years' time. Also, he'd have to rush to earn First Class. Now he may be a kid who naturally advances to that point in a year. But, if he's not, he'll feel pushed along. I've seen too many scouts in such situations quit.

For more than three years, our NSP was a "no scout patrol" -- no crossovers 'cept younger brothers who just fit in to a one patrol troop. By the end of last year our youngest scout was 14. Now we merged with the other troop who was garnering the bulk of the community's Webelos. Only a few of their boys (close friends of our scouts) were between 15 and 16. So, 3 patrols are somewhere between ages 12 and 14. The older boys are kind of in the patrols, kind of in a leadership corps, and kinda in a venturing crew. They are doing a decent job of determining program, instructing, and bringing the young PL's up to speed. Anyway, the plan is to let cross-overs be a NSP for about 6 months until everyone gets to know everyone else. We are providing two options for summer camp (one to the west - dining hall, one to the east - patrol cooking) on the same week, so that might influence how things settle out. We are flush with adults. Our challenge is to get them to back off. Adults of young scouts are helicopterish, adults of older our alumni scouts are critical of how rough the young ones do things. I really like the new SM. I myself am beginning to feel like I can stop worrying about the troop and focus on the crew.

So, how integrated are the new starters? Have they sort of settled into a patrol yet? Gone on several trips? Know the rest of the troop (at least by name)? I think part of the decision about mixing things up hinges on how cohesive your existing patrols are. Over here, that's often a function of mutual activities and clique's that form outside of the scout house. If they aren't very cohesive you might want to encourage the new scouts to hang with a different patrol each meeting, then allow everyone to draw their lines at the end of school. If they are very cohesive, you might want to have each couple of scouts settle on their patrol (or, the patrols settle on their scouts) as they join. Patrol A takes the first lot, patrol B the second, etc ...

I consider blw2's opinions to be a demonstration of what one can learn about the patrol method from current sources -- outside of being in a couple of troops and watching their patrols morph over the years. What would be nice, for him, is if a few adults in the troops were reading those same sources.

From Laurel Highland's Council (about four hours from Beckly) the cost is $1450. But that is just 5-6 hours away (depending on where from the council the coaches depart). And, since we can to D.C. anytime, there is no reason for an extra week of touring. I kind of regret that Jamborees no longer rotate location so that scouts in different parts have a chance at lower costs.

It sounds like your Young Leaders are Junior Assistant Scoutmasters (or cubmasters or den leaders), a.k.a. JASM. It was a huge deal to achieve this position in my youth. On this side of the pond, in recent years, the value of the position is often questioned (see http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/25960-pros-and-cons-of-the-junior-assistant-scoutmaster-position/). I think that is because troops have accumulated so many adult assistant scoutmasters (and packs, cubmasters and den leaders) that they "muscle out" the youth who would fill this gap. the "Instructor" position specifically defines what we'd expect from most older youth. there are Venturing crews to found, O/A chapters to facilitate, and a profusion of other opportunities for that age group under the scouting umbrella. There is no JASM corps.

I train my venturers to never count what didn't happen, That's the path to discouragement. Four adults wanted to hear from you. Huzzah! One who will be the boy's sales coach? Ka-Ching! ASMs ... tell your CC his job #1 is to get them trained. Especially about boy-led. You are young enough to remember the times that adults breathing down the back of your neck made you unhappy or adults doing things for you made you lazy. 'Nuff said. Some here are gonna throw red flags ... about the family camping. It's a compromise you are willing to make. Just remember the boys didn't sign on to be babysitters. Many of them did sign on to get out from under the 'rents! Make sure they set up camp far away (as in football field or the next hollow over) from your family site. This may mean having to reserve two sites if you are going to a standard boy scout camp. Talk to your rangers and ask them what they think would work best. Maybe everyone meets for morning flags and reveille, but that's about it. about MB classes during meetings. Keep those to a minimum and only if the boys ask to do one. Make sure they can't get signed off all at once at the last class. They can get the counselor's phone # and meet with him/her on their own time (our troop allows that to be a break-out session during our meeting) to wrap things up. All those "tell","explain","do" requirements should be done no more than a couple of boys at a time with a counselor. Less worksheets = more fun. The reason you discuss an MB during the meeting is to plan an activity related to the badge (e.g., skype with a scout in another country). Good scouting to you. And really, you're gonna owe the Mrs. big time. So put aside $$!

Our newly merged troop is basically that. The older scouts are effectively their own patrol. All of the elected patrol leaders were 12 or 13. So even if there is an older boy, he tries to keep mum to give the PL a chance to shine. It looks like the Webelos den will crossover as a new scout patrol. Mainly because there's a couple of those 13 year olds who might like to try their hand at guiding them. You have the nuance of both sexes being in the troop. I don't know if that makes letting the kids settle their arrangement any easier or harder. Might be a good idea to invite some of your soon-to-be-explorers out for lunch and have them remind you what it was like coming up. They might have some stories of things that were formative for them that you didn't notice at the time. It's best to learn from the experts.