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On behalf of my liberal muslim friends, I must object to @@Stosh's use of "jihad" for his Conflict Level 6. Perhaps "Carpet Bombing" would be more suitable and typical of an American conflict response. {rant over} I advised a TG who was frustrated by the boys to just lower his expectations of what gets accomplished. If there's an instigator, send him to me to help find something for supplies. Your NSP is not new in age but maybe in experience. How often have they camped? Have they ever planned one activity (e.g., a hike around town) just their patrol? Whatever you're expecting of this patrol, they don't want to do it. You really need to get these guys away from busywork like rosters and onto tasks. Surely the CO has a bathroom that needs cleaned or a closet that needs organized, or (as you all aren't inundated with snow) weeds to pull and fire ants to poison? Start giving them service opportunities. Tell the PL that you hate to interrupt their very important meeting but someone asked if the boys could do X. (Obviously, make sure X is a ten minute task 'cause it sounds like this lot will take thirty to do it.) Or, fill a bucket of water and challenge them to relay it across/around the property without spilling it. Then get another bucket and challenge them to relay them in opposite directions. Then challenge them to use their buckets to fill a barrel. Meanwhile, get yourself a nice chair, a cup of tea (Chamomile, given how these boys are getting under your skin), sit back and watch. It won't be any prettier, but it will sure be funny.

Not odd at all. BSA did not invent LNT. It adopted it because troops were tramping up State and National parks. Their own properties couldn't possibly be managed under such guidelines given the desired volume of untrained campers. The guys on the camping committee are a stand-up lot of execs and volunteers. The names at the bottom of the report are passionate supporters of scouting and Western PA. Some of them (if I recognize the names correctly) are accountants and property managers. The back story: we've merged three councils in as many years because two were folding. (Thus the gerrymander when you look at the maps.) Needless to say, when it came time to balance the books, we had to lose executives. To get back those executives, we either need to increase fees, raise funds, or sell property.

"During this past year, our Council’s Board of Directors adopted a Strategic Plan with specific objectives relating to Membership, Marketing, Program, Development, Leadership and Governance, Unit Service, and Facilities. With respect to Facilities . . . the Strategic Plan directs us to develop a short and long range camp master plan. As the first step in our planning process, we’ve invited John Stewart, a consulting engineer with the Boy Scouts of America national office, to visit our Council and conduct a review of our facilities. John, along with members of our Laurel Highlands Council camping and properties committees, visited all ten of our camps and our three office buildings." http://lhc-bsa.org/~/media/Councils/Council527/527%20FSR%202016%20January%20Final.ashx Personal note: the boys in our units' preferred camping locations are among the ones mentioned for closing.

Don't feel too bad. Our crew's "on the brink" as well. If I can't cycle in new blood (both in terms of graduating 8th graders and in terms of passionate adults) next year might close it out. In that context, I'm a little concerned that an event like this may be a distraction.

Now gents, @@htusa31 created this new topic so we wouldn't run it off the rails! But, reinterpret Stosh's objection ... with the role-modelling approach can you model structure, but you can't model a desired character. For example, board can learn how to operate by Roberts' rules by observing other seasoned boards. However, if some members are bent on using the rules to muzzle others ... following the rules to a T will only keep malicious members in check and make the folks you'd really like to hear from not want to participate. Until you do the grunt-work of rebuilding the members' relationships with one another, giving them any model in which to operate will prove an exercise in futility. Role modelling worked with this troop because the boys already liked each other. They knew they wanted to accomplish some things. They knew it wasn't happening the way they were doing it. And, they believed they could do it differently and achieve a different outcome. SM provides one demonstration, and they were ready to act, proceeding with minimal guidance in the form of routine evaluation. I think NYLT, camporees, O/A, jamborees, and H/A contingents offer a variety of models that boys can evaluate. This partially helps avoid the "rut" that Stosh describes. But if boys aren't going in thinking "This is gonna help my troop/patrol back home," experiencing different models won't have much of a transforming effect. In that case, working with the boys as you observe their talents and adjusting to that over monthly activities is the better strategy.

If the church is your CO, that's their number. For these purposes, you are a ministry of the church. They "own" your troop's treasury and gear. Typically, your church treasurer will understand this and won't have a problem with you using it. The down side may be that he/she ask for a little accountability. The plus side is you aren't beholden to the BSA for any portion of the funds that you raise.

If your crew has at least 5 youth and 2 adults who are free July 31-Aug 5, $400 each participant ($300 each adult), plus transport. Summit Bechtel Reserve may be the place to be: http://www.summitbsa.org/venturingfest/ Scuttlebutt has that the National Venturing Youth Cabinet is putting this together in coordination with SBR staff.

@@MattR, yeah. Maybe we should just focus on math. Speaking of which ... Maybe Jersey boys are freed up to take the long view ... Like this guy: http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~sdmiller/Cryptanalysis-of-the-NFL-Schedule.html

Nice job! You set the right tone. It is gratifying when people count on your good name. As to when to split the boys, it all depends on how active they are. If they are all showing up to everything, they could form two patrols next month. If, like most troops with diverse boys, you're missing 3 or 4 at every activity, but they're never the same guys, you can wait to divide until after all your cross-overs are accounted for. Regardless, I suspect you'll want them in two groups before you do a week-long activity like summer camp. I find for that length of time, two small patrols accomplish a little more than one large patrol.

That sense of "poaching" is unfortunate. I lean pretty hard on my venturers to put serious effort into their troop or youth group. On the flip side, a troop's better to lose older scouts who would rather not be there, than never get any cross-overs because the older boys are aloof. Sometimes, you just don't get a group of older boys who are the nurturing type. Sometimes, however, there are personality conflicts between a scout and his SM. If the SM really relates as a mentor, a boy will stick around even into adulthood unless war or college takes him elsewhere. Meanwhile, it's easier to for a young scout to find jobs to do. (E.g., "Johnny, could you ask around 3 or 4 parents to see if they can give us rides to camp? Let me know who tells you they can." If the SM does that once, pretty soon the PL will catch on that he's to ask that question when it comes time to organize the next event.) One suggestion: talk to those SPL/ASPL and see if they would like to be Den Chiefs. You've got a one-patrol troop. It's fine if one of those first-years is PL and actually has most of the management responsibility for meetings, etc ... Let the SPL/ASPL position be a laid back "call me if you need anything" deal. The idea is to slowly get these older boys acquainted with the next couple of years' potential cross-overs, so that by the time they're 14, they'll have some personal investment in their well-being as they move into the troop.

bout he same happened for me at my church yesterday. good news! scout Sabbath is this coming Saturday!

Sorry, @@Krampus, I did get a nice walk in before the game, but this was the low-scoring brawl thanks to overpowering defenses I expected it to be. Nothing warms the heart of an old WPa football fan more.

From decades of work disentangling the machinations of befuddled psychologists, I've concluded that trying to describe "optimal" configuration based on the mean misses the vast bulk of universe that reigns in the variance. In other words, for every patrol mix that someone's found to be a dismal mess, someone else has found a patrol with the same mix to be spectacular. It's mostly a matter of finding the set of "little accomplishments" that a given cluster of boys need to achieve.

I'll quiz the boys tonight. Maybe grab a treat and candles? http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/02/08/bsas-106th-birthday-one-volunteer-asks-scouting-still-relevant/

I think you mean to say "AFTER he's ineligible". I'm not sure one opens the door to the other. The wording of the T2F requirements don't explicitly say "upon meeting the age eligibility requirements". That is a requirement for Scout, but before last year that badge wasn't really required to be completed before working on Tenderfoot. It stymies me why anyone wouldn't have their boys complete it, but it doesn't surprise me with that some competent Webelos who seem to be taking to this scouting stuff quiet readily, the actual age of the new boys would be overlooked. I bet this thing happens a lot and is just getting noticed because of internet advancement and someone out there comparing dates on a large scale after the fact. As far as rechartering, if it slipped by for one troop's internet recharter, it did for all of the others. I do find it odd, because the rechartering program dinged me for one of my venturers who completed 8th grade before turning 14. This was the year the rules were changed to make any 13-year-old 8th grade graduate eligible. Clearly the rule didn't make it into the computer logic's rules (which were probably hard-coded, which as @@Krampus would tell is the bane of most IT projects). To push my charter through, I had to change her birthdate. Then I corrected it on the following year's charter. Makes me wonder if someone fudged the 9/10 y.o. kid's DoB when rechartering during his first year.

Yep. At 21 seconds.In the "4x4ever" spot (in the 4th quarter, go figure): https://youtu.be/pOiiPxb-Gbw?t=21s IMHO they won the Super Bowl add race with that and their "Portraits" spot in the first half.

That's precisely why the call to National. This wouldn't be their first rodeo. But I'm figuring one doesn't adjust any of the requirement sign-off dates except boards of review. The PL saw the boy do the requirements. SM had a conference. The boards approved everything, albeit prematurely. I suspect they'd shift the dates for T2F to a month after eligibility; Star, 5 months after eligibility, Life 11 months after eligibility. Or, they might not shift anything except the date of the Life BoR -- since that rank has yet to be conferred. One would be hard pressed to argue that he could not sharpen an axe and knife safely at age 10 if he demonstrated sharpening a knife and axe then, and seems to have not forgotten any of it in the interim.

naw. The handbook is all the writing you need.What you're really getting from national is how to correct things on advancement reports (rank, MB completion dates) so it won't confound a future Eagle application (be that next year, or six years from now).

Can't speak to the program itself. But from time to time at every level of scouting we come across leaders who seem a little generous with bling. Some dens are exceptional. It's not that any given meeting is particularly efficient. The boys have so much fun and the parents enjoy each other enough that they commit an extra evening or parts of every weekend to make it happen. (That was very much Son #1s experience.) The only way you'll know if this is the case is via discrete conversations with parents and Cubs. You should already be doing this because based on your other threads you'd like a new Wolf DL. As far as doing anything about what's already awarded, that's probably water over the dam.

I honestly don't feel my Eagle is sullied because I only had six years in which to earn it while some other kid had eight.But then again, I don't think there should be any upper age limit on earning it. And I would look forward to a kid like this taking on the responsibility of making sure his ASMs (who may have forgotten or never learned a few scout skills) are all first class scouters. I suppose @@Krampus is right. Someone's gonna cry foul at this. Even if the boy is the total package. So, make sure your DE runs this up the chain so that he/she hears from National about how you should handle this.

I'm playing on words here. Most of us will be involved in some type scout Sunday/Sabbath or other scouting community recognition this week or later this month. I'm not so interested in how you observed it. (Although if you felt your youth did something that you think others might want to replicate, let's hear it!) Rather, what of interest -- grand or humble -- did you see happen? Of course, I'll start ... Yesterday I attended a luncheon event for pastors and board members who have congregants particularly interested in long term service. This was not a closed-door gathering, but by nature of the focus, doesn't draw a big crowd (older, planning and development types, not the "lets just have a party" types). However, the two youngest people in the room happened to be former venturers of mine. I'm not saying that non-scouts wouldn't take interest in this stuff, and there are obviously plenty of scouts of mine who would have zero interest. But, by virtue of having camped and hiked a lot with a lot of kids, and following them as they slogged through college, etc ... I had a good idea of who would be right for a particular specialty. Other folk would be limited to posting some announcement in their bulletin without much clue as to who would likely join them. As it was, these two took their seat at the table around some tremendous individuals and held their own quite nicely. Although no uniforms were involved, I think that's what what we're trying to do with scout week ... Help our youth envision how what we're doing fits in with what they may do for God and Country down the road. Your turn ...

Our most recent configuration: 1) one checkbook, one person can issue them. (We do have the requisite back-up signers. But they don't carry a checkbook.) 2) No petty cash unless it's relevant to the activity. (E.g., patrols get some cash because their hike takes them by a general store, where they will reprovision.) 3) no debit cards. Everyone is fine putting stuff on their personal charge and turning in receipts for reimbursement. This demands that the treasurer be available for folks on a regular basis. Monthly reports of receipts, expenditures, are critical for committee minutes. And motions for expenditures should be easily identifyable in the minutes for good auditing. (e.g., a good ledger entry would be: 2/15/'16 $200 to XYZ Council, per January meeting, see minutes, motion #3.) Actual audits are extremely rare, our treasurer audited herself better than we ever would, but she insisted having related documentation and clear motions befor she drafted a check.

@@Oldscout448, I wish that problem was just yours and the last time it happened was 15 years ago. We've had a couple young men wash up on our doorstep for that very reason. Thanks for the kind words, nice to know I lived up to that "Advisor" patch. The next time some venturer talks back to me, I'll warn him/her to not take my advice lightly, 'cause out on the other side of the Internet, some 448 old scout has my pontifications tacked over his desk.

"A scout who refuses to do his job" is not holding his position. There is nothing to be impeached about. If I say "Take care of your boys." And a PL says, "That's stupid! No way am I doing that!" On the day he says it he no longer holds that position. The day a boy takes that to heart, no matter the patch on his sleeve is the day he assumes that position. Fact is. I've never met a scout like that. - I met scouts that are coached poorly and perform accordingly. - I met scouts who don't listen too well and perform accordingly. - I met scouts who are a little lazy and selfish and it comes back to bite them. - I met scouts who don't understand leadership and go all drill instructor, and become the brunt of jokes for years after, bless them. No, a patrol or troop doesn't have a "right" to impeach boys like that. They do have the right to ask them to do better or leave. Most boys shape up. Some realize they are in over their head, and pass the baton to the guy who they think is ready for the job. A few months later they come back ready to serve, if needed. Accuse me of having a low bar. But if you are performing your position a little better each month from the day you started, I'm happy. And really, most of the boys are happy too. Boys who don't improve leave their position on the table. Most of the time they find a position that suits them. Sometimes they quit scouting.

That's a decent plan. What we're talking about really, is waiting until 11 years 10 months (or, if he earned AoL 10 years 10 months) to confer Life Rank. I'd buy it ... if you sincerely believe at his 11th (or 10th) birthday the boy was first class (the concept not the patch). Most boys don't have a problem with that sort of thing. But, then again, it doesn't sound like most boys. So, when you advise them, be prepared to challenge them. Maybe while they wait, they should try to earn a STEM or Hornaday award. Or, discuss with them about religious awards. A quick talk with the SM might give you an idea of what's best to suggest for each boy and would be the most fun for the troop to go along with.