qwazse

The thing I remember most about cub scouts was walking to the den mom's house. Then when I was a Webelos we had a state trooper for a DL and had to drive me there, but it was all good. That guy taught us to shoot a 38 special. That's a huge difference from then and our now post-modern nomadic culture. We just don't trust the folks within a five block area to be good enough scouters for our boys. So parents are looking for that one location where they can take their boys to be among perfect kids. That means more demand for programs that will consolidate time in those moving metal boxes!

I was using Chrome for iOS. I'll see if I need to run updates, then give it another shot the next time I want that feeling of nails in my forehead. There should be a MB on clean coding.

Welcome! I generally just hit the ground ... unless I've set up a hammock.

@@fleep, I'm friends with some scouts from Central Europe. They stay at my house on a school breaks. Your English compares well to theirs. "A Message to the Chief" is merely a text depiction of the activity: a scout relaying a message to his leader. But, it could also be an excerpt of text from a national report: the equivalent of what chosen scouts now present to our President as "The Report To The Nation" (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/category/report-to-the-nation/). One reason for the inverted printing may be this was a cover to a flip book (bound at the top). The text seems incomplete. It looks like the bottom margin was trimmed. So it leads me to think there may have been more pages. I know of no such book, but maybe someone else could comment to that possibility. Could this be a notebook about signalling?

We must be suckers in Steeler country. I've paid every dime for my training. Just like union dues. 8)If I wasn't paying (i.e, teaching) I paid by following up with a coffee with any students in my course.

Tried to get into the venturing training, Gave up after a dozen clicks and loop after loop of errors thrown up by the iPad.

Okay, so maybe we were too nice at the get-go. Always remember this: you don't have a problem with other parents. They are bringing your boy some buddies ... one or two who may be life-long friends ... even to both of your sons. You have a problem that there are so many good things this group of boys could do under the rubric of cub scouting, that it overdraws your collective time budget. Those excuses? They are just a common way of saying, "I don't want to invest time in your vision." Ideally, that would mean "I have a different awesome vision for our boys, and would like to invest time in that." But, usually it's just burnt-out-parent-speak for "I can't see beyond the here-and-now unless my son is screaming and jumping up and down to do it!" In other words, they don't see the return on their investment from chipping in on their time budget. It would be nice if they up and said it. My best scout parents were the ones who did. But, at you're age most everyone is too polite (hint: this is annoyingly true among church circles) so a leader like you sees heads nod then gets your hopes dashed when they don't follow through. The best you can do: Stop talking to the parents. Have the boys open to the page in their book. Give them a bookmark. (Sticky notes are good.) Send them on their way. If they come back with "Nada", say "That's okay, this is a new week, let's pick something else." Let your ADL run with her one idea that the boys seem most excited about. It has nothing to do with requirements? So what? Worst case scenario, you all show up at the Pack meeting saying "We didn't get any awards, but Mrs. ___ got us into __ and it was a blast!" Chances are that one idea will be a light distraction, and will allow the boys to relax and feel good about trying something by the book the opposite week. Recap: With what little time you have, and what few resources the parents have spared ... cheerfully keep a laser-like focus on the boys, the boys, the boys! Not the requirements, not what's left undone, not the folks who let you down. Do that, and twelve years from now, you might get an note from an Eagle scout who will remember that for one hour a week, you were all about him.

But you'd have more fun swinging a live one!

You're not going to get details until you hear from older boys at higher ranks. Our boys give us feedback like: When can we go back to Dolly Sods? More camping, please. My other troop was adult lead. I like being trusted with QM here. All of which we already knew. What's important is that the continual feedback from the boys offsets constant pressure from adults to do other things.

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for all your service to the boys! I once had a relative on the phone in frustration about this ... he was a leader of one boy and it looked like his other son wasn't going to earn Bear. My answer was of great comfort "Then he doesn't earn, Bear ... so what?" Your job is not to make sure everybody earns their awards. Your position as DL is to show the boys the opportunities they can take with their parents. If they don't take them, it's on the boys. (Trust me, if the kid really was gun-ho about the activity ... Mom or Dad would beat down the door to make it happen!) As far as you are concerned ... only plan trips that you and your son will enjoy. He is having fun with you on these activities, right? Come Pack meeting night, give the boy whose earned it his award. If it's your son, thank him for being your buddy on some fun activities. For every other boys, give him a handshake and let them know "you are just X activities away from earning your award" and leave it up to him to read his book and figure out what he'd like to do with his parents.

There is this from national http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-673.pdf "The recommended use of this form is for the consent and approval for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and guests to participate in a trip, expedition, or activity. It is required for use with flying plans." So, recommended, not required. My kid's troops and crews never used them for routine campouts, bowling night, shooting sports days, etc ... Usually for activities that are more strenuous (skiing, whitewater, climbing) the outfitter requires its own release forms, so I treat those as permission slips. Growing up, SM handed us the slips (not nearly as much verbiage as the form linked above), SPL read the activity info, and we filled in the blanks. Then we got the 'rents signature that evening and had it in our handbooks ready to turn in (along with fees) at the next meeting. Beneath the signature was a line like "I can drive __ scouts to and __ scouts from the activity." So the slip was as much about securing transportation. So I suspect for some units it's been the routine for time out of mind. For others, a handshake would do,

Drop #3. There is no way, for example, that you can know that a 1st class candidate can still swim 100 yards in a strong manner, or that he can only navigate 4 miles. At the best, you can ask him if there is any skill that he has problems with, then ask him what the troop or his patrol could do to improve everyone's skill in that area. After the boy gives oath and law, we have him take a seat at the table and give us his book. I think your concern about making him stand the whole time is valid.

Back in my day, we just chose from several dozen standard issue names. I can't even remember how we settled on "Wolf" for the patrol I started. Goes to show how permanently scarring this kind of thing can be. It does sound like the ASM inserted himself unnecessarily. But it could have been to settle the boys down as best he could. On our troops, by reasons I cannot fathom, the patrol picks their name. We adults don't get involved. Some years, it takes them so long to settle on a name, they have minimal enthusiasm for it. One year, some boys didn't like the formality of roll call, (e.g. "Flaming Arrows, all present and accounted for, sir!") So they chose "Hey Chris" for their name. Rejoice if it's something they can cheaply find a patch for. If your son thinks this will be emblematic of how the patrol operates, then he'll start a new patrol soon enough.

Oh, that's funny! In our old troop adults paid their own dues (enough to cover registration and some patches). The new troop paid for adults, but they didn't have nearly as many on the roster as we were bringing into the merger. So, to keep them from draining their treasury, we used a good chunk of our remaining treasury (i.e. mostly this year's fundraising) to underwrite everyone's dues for this year. In my case, I've paid for my registration on the crew's charter. (Actually, I still owe $ to the crew treasurer for that.) Didn't cost the crew anything. Several of the venturers were primary on the crew's roster. The new troop treasurer asked if I wanted a check for the money was transferred for their registration but not spent on it, and I replied "One more piece of paperwork for less than $100? Please don't make my life any more complicated than it is!" I'm beginning to wonder if part of this is a parallel to the "burn out" topic.

@@Krampus, you want someone like me to "make it official." I'm wondering why? What value is it to the troop if a person is only registered as the advisor of a neighboring crew?

Well, being an old crow, there are too few of us to only make friends within our patrol! There aren't that many competitions, but the main one is there to challenge our priorities. Some folks hate it. A few folks are indifferent, and some find it insightful. But, I don't know, I can see it being just as divisive among folks within a patrol as between patrols. Anyway, here's the big picture. It's not just about games. It's about time management. Different patrols operate on different schedules as they meet between course dates. You need to allow for that. Your gonna prepare different menus and maybe even different styles of camping for the second weekend and have different material to present, and obviously that means gear that you two normally share may need to be divided. Then you are going to write different tickets with different goals to achieve in the following 18 months. That means time where you both might be doing different things. Sometimes that's very good. You'll complement one another. Sometimes that may result in more time apart than planned. Frankly, I would encourage you each to have one of the goals on your ticket be something like "take your spouse out to dinner and talk about each others goals and aspirations". Now, zooming out to the big big picture: scouting couples are awesome ... but only as long as scouting does not replace the marriage. I have had friends on the brink of divorce because of that "missed memo." Fortunately I had a mutual friend whom we could agree upon to counsel them, and he called me to understand what was ailing before they all met (as if I knew much more than superficial stuff). But, that blessing is not available (and on a person's mind) when it needs to be to everyone who needs it. All that to say WB -- and scouting in general -- is a great opportunity to do your marriage a solid. All depends on how much you wanna practice graciousness and humility.

@@bubba.bubba love your enthusiasm. But as you see, there are technical hurdles that will make you think that someone is untrained when they are not. There is also a lack of corporate discipline in that some units train their people so well (at least, in their opinion), they have neither time nor patience for district training. Folks under both circumstances will not countenance the "every boy needs a trained leader" mantra that you so enthusiastically adhere to. This leaves you with a mess, because you have some seasoned scouters who are "all that" but just don't care if anyone recognizes them a such along with scouters who want to do it their way and would not want to change. But any list of names that your district puts out won't give you a hint at who's who. I think your goal should be to personally invite 100% of your district's untrained leaders to the next training session -- either to be a trainee if they just registered in that position or a facilitator if they've been in that position for a while. Maybe see if you can get a seasoned scouter like your district commissioner to sit with you on a few of those calls. He/she might know which of your untrained list may need to be accorded a little more respect, and which are just bucking the system. What kind of numbers are you looking at anyway? How many scouters are coming up as needing what kinds of training?

@@Krampus, I'm in venturing, we kinda know that. Why? Loathing of paperwork -- mainly. And there's some pretty good dads in this troop. I don't want them crowded out. The fact is, I'm kinda seeing the need to wean the troop from us "old guard." We basically nudge to give their boys longer leashes and increased outdoor activity -- putting some crazy ideas int PL's heads about neat places to hike and camp with just their 9 guys, helping the new SM filter any tripe spouted off at roundtable (e.g. "how we do it" lectures from MB-mill troops), and sharing policies regarding things like expenses and equipment. And we keep one eye on the scouts from our former troop making sure they aren't just an elitist clique. In the past few years, a lot of things did not happen with our crew because I felt I owed a lot to the ASM. I think I have a tremendous lot offer high school students who've missed out on boy scouts -- both in my community and around council and the area. And those folks have gotten short shrift in the past couple of years.

This isn't an audit. He would still list what he spent on various materials. The board will probably have it on good report that he's trustworthy. Even if it was an audit, one would have a line with the expense and footnote that the receipt was not available.

The troop Is fine with whatever scouting stuff I do. But most parents have been only involved with this troop and only for three years. So, they aren't exactly the type to question much. CP, 'round here, we don't gag our guests. They bring everything they have to offer to the table except signing the boy's book. Your point is well taken, however. The more I do of these, the less I expect to talk. I'm basically giving a template to move forward and improve upon. I'm not expecting to be on every board, as I'm hoping that other parents will be available most evenings. Why not EBORs? Well, they already have the district rep as a guest. (See there? We even let guests in as moderators!) Also, I'm more directly involved with older scouts as their crew advisor or coaching them on leading the troop. So, I would rather be helping with Eagle SMCs.

Venturers have boundary issues ... so here's one that seems to be working now, but it wouldn't hurt to get some feedback from my favorite online scouters. Last year our troop merged with another one, basically we transferred our boys' memberships to theirs. We left it up to the adults to do the same. I decided to let my registration lapse, and only keep my crew position on file downtown. So, it's only the green shirt these days ... and when asked I present myself as a guest at their meetings ... no big whoop. I'll still assist the new SM, patch notwithstanding. If a kid wants me to teach him something his patrol is weak on, fine. I'm more than happy to be that creepy old guy drawing topo maps on the backs of little kids' knuckles. But, he has to demonstrate what he knows to the PL for a sign-off. That's helped these 2nd and 3rd years move a little further along. So, since I'm not officially a member of the troop, I can be a guest on boards of reviews. That's been helpful because I think it's shown the MC's how to broaden the discussion and get a better idea of how the troop can serve these boys. Some limitations I've set for myself: I won't sit on EBoRs. I wont sit on any BoR of a boy who is also a member of my crew. Anyway, what do you think? Am I within "my rights" as an advisor ... advising scouts and parents who aren't officially in my unit? Or, does it sound like I'm dodging spirit of the GTA by trying to play a little ASM and a little MC without committing fully to either?

Some guys just can't handle laundry lists ... the CC and COR need to boil it down as follows: "YOU tell us how you are going to have fun with the boys. WE tell you how we are going to support you in that. If you don't show up at the designated time where we can make that all clear, then, yes, we will quickly move to find someone who do so." Don't worry about eggshells. As a direct contact leader, I prefer a committee who can be blunt with me. We had to make some big decisions last year, and adults who told us what stunk and what didn't saved us a lot of wasted hot air. Our new SM was taken aback by it -- especially me, but after he heard how we engaged the boys in meaningful dialogue, he apologized for misjudging me. Explained that he was sticking to his guns on some things, willing to learn on others. We moved on.

You might be in between a rock and a hard place. In our council, training records have been brought up to date (so the registrar tells us) and any person without training for his/her position by the end of the year cannot be retained on the charter in that position. So, in our scenario, aggrieved CC or COR either drops the untrained member from the roster according to the regulations. Or, as has been suggested with my young-adult ASM's, changes them to unit scouter reserve. (I can't remember if that requires sending a new adult application.) Nation-wide stats haven't been published yet, but we dropped many of our occasional ASMs and MCs because of this. @@Krampus, good luck chasing down those trained patches. Our best ASMs won't even have them sewn on.

This guy might not be one for banquets. If that's the case, reserve a court of honor or campout where the changing of the guard can be made. As far as program goes, discern how much the boys chose the locations because they had to have him there vs. they wanted to have him there. Based on that, you need to figure out if you need to toss him the "gold watch" or insist that he still needs to be part of the team. With those local camp-outs, figure out how to build in the appropriate physical challenges for the boys. SM emeritus stays at base camp, ASMs supervise the leadership corps/ venture patrol(s) as appropriate

Like most stories, maturity as a scout has a beginning, middle, end. And it repeats for each rank or position the scout holds. (Maybe it's even more cyclical than that.) We scouters are involved at the beginning by giving them a vision. ("Here's what you can do and what you may need ...") The boys are responsible for the middle. ("Alright guys! Let's go for it! I'll draw up the plan, Johnny line up the gear, Billy line up the food, etc ...") We review at the end. ("What went well? What didn't go so well? What should we do differently?") The challenge is maximizing "middle" time so that the beginnings and ends hang on something concrete.