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I agree. Get the patrols working as independently as possible.

It will be interesting to see how the 2019 world jamboree will shape opinions on co-Ed units.

Welcome! Always good to hear the next generation of scouters coming along.

Do you have land? Offer it for patrol camping. Provide an adult site 100+ yards from where the youth will camp.

The SM is the bottom line. And we've gone back and forth between First-class-and-up being permitted (after being briefed on how to test and sign off), to just PL's, SPL's, and instructors. Star Life and Eagle used to be all MB's and marking time. So the boy just tracked what he did and asked for an SMC whenever. It's gotten a little complex with the hidden pedagogy and service-project MB's. There's a lot more to sign off nowadays. And, our boys usually get an adult to do it.

Let's make a distinction between the pro- who volunteers (no problem with that, happens all the time) and the pompous windbag who volunteers (big problems with that -- especially the guy in the mirror, happens more than anyone would like). There's nothing wrong with CO and CC choosing a pro- to run their unit. It may actually be good, because the pro- might not have as much time to spare so the boys will have to step into the gap. But lack of free time and a demanding work schedule is also a disadvantage. Boys won't have as much access to the pro- as they would a retiree, or a fella with steady hours. Of course a pompous windbag comes with all of the problems you mentioned and is best trained by serving under an SM who will reign him/her in for a few years. But for a CO and CC, it might be "any ship in a storm." Troops often have personalities, and some should get the SM they deserve.

Just to blow your mind a little: why not? Say the PL has a busted gamb and can't complete swimming reqs until a couple months. He can still observe and cheer on his mates at a properly supervised aquatics area, then put his pen to their books while they are drying off. Say he's still nervous about land navigation, but lines up a hike with a buddy who says he's ready as navigator and an instructor as backup and he tags along. After his buddy identifies the ideal logs on this side of the ravine to trim and cross to the other side, why shouldn't he sign off? Make the rules simple: PL's can sign off on ST2F rank advancement, period. He doesn't have to be first to rank up to lead his boys in ranking up!

I like correcting adults for their own good. I love helping youth discover real joy and beauty. I'd like to think that @@SSF's Life scout prefers the latter. Preaching to the choir, Stosh. If this were only about being a real patrol, most definitely boys will ditch BSA, find a camp, and bring their buddies, sisters, and girlfriends. Seen it dozens of times. Handed off keys to the van more than once. But, this is also about throwing down the "scout spirit" gauntlet. What gives the scout the best opportunity to show he's got what it takes to wear that patch with the pretty red heart? Challenging a couple of key adults to enable sanctioned action in a very timely fashion seems to be the most rewarding move.

Welcome!

Agreed that there is room for pessimism.But in situations like this I ask myself which would be more enjoyable: - go crying foul to a district exec or advancement chair? - go running to a new troop? - go camping and hiking (maybe fishing, with opening day for trout fast approaching)? I prioritize by doing the most fun thing first.

I spent my youth rolling down hills occasionally "finding" rocks. Always regretted that my kids grew up on property that was probably the flattest in town. National has reasons, we think little of their reasoning. Whatever. I myself never thought of sticking a patrol or den in a sphere of polyurethane for entertainment (theirs or mine). But we've been teaching boys to think out of the box, they have time to kill, and find this stuff, and "Oh golly, there's the wall of the box!" We are experiencing this scenario where boys are drawn towards tech activities and we've accomdated them. For example, when I was a kid, scouts went winter camping and clubs went skiing. Now that's reversed. Some parents don't Trust their school's ski club to properly chaperon their kids. They ask scouts to go skiing. It was the wierdest thing for me when Son #1 learned to ski with his troop. (Weirder still when I learned as an advisor with my crew.) Suddenly national is rattling off rules about head buckets. When will it end? It won't. The problem is that pronouncements from National lose their credibility when they opine "this isn't safe" when the subtext is primarily "this isn't worth it."

So, running this up the chain is possible. Another possibility is for your boy to prove that "scout spirit" by planning a campout with his patrol. Surely, his boys can hustle a plan together in a day or two, and if these adults are all about their "scout spirit", there oughta be two among them who can chaperon for the weekend. You think the SM's bluffing? What better way to call it than by arranging some fun hiking and camping independently with your mates!

I guess they are preparing the boy to be nominated for SCOTUS ... We wish you son all the best as he respectfully asks his committee chair to adhere to BSA policy.

This is sort of why I started the Crew. To allow us a program that can hit the skids if the youth step back. By hitting the skids, I mean we just do a little camping, a service project here and there, whatever I'm interested in at the time and is pretty easy on my wallet. In other words, if you want to act like a patrol that hikes and camps with your mates, fine. If you want to do something bigger, here's who you call. There is no way adults would allow me to do that with the troop. Now that I'm the old guy in the room, I can nudge them away a little. The den moms and dads think I'm a little crazy, but usually a little chocolate and coffee fixes that. The general excuse is the boys are too busy to focus. If they said that to a sports coach they'd get a line like "Well, I guess he can focus on the bench." But somehow, that's an acceptable excuse for not putting in their own hour a week.

Looks like the Girl Scout guidelines for campsite selection (which explains why so few go back-country.) I like @RemeberSchiff's link a little better because it pulls together multiple sources and frees scouts and scouters to think for themselves. @@Krampus, Thanks for the link to Bryan's blog. There was a fresh reply about "If we can’t offer the Boy Scouts service hours for helping out the Cub Scouts then why would they volunteer?" How sad that people think so little of our boys.

@, forget the vote. Either you're gonna support one more set of parents or you're not. Make up your mind and lead accordingly. It might help if you touch base with a few pack parents who have five year olds.

Some of these private communities are quite large and parts of them can be neglected by owners and managers. The impact on those niches can be quite large. They could just as well be a trailer park where everyone takes care of their 12by24 plot and that's it. Really, it's the SM's call.

"all ice and no cream" Oh, never mind.

First and foremost, discern if this is the boy's goal. If so, go to the mat for him. I'd call National and have scout net change their business logic. Because sure-shooting there's some troop out there that takes quite literally "3 months" and will back date or fore date their BoR because the tenure requirement says nothing about "plus however long it takes your troop to organize its adults." They'll figure that putting around waiting for a BoR to happen should be tantamount to adding to the requirements. Now if it's all mamas' smoke blowing, by all means relax and tilt at other windmills.

Ya know, there's nothing saying you can't have the board of review before the three months are up. Here's my take. If the kid's continuously active in the troop. If he's gaining leadership skills, if the required number of MBs are locked in well before the required tenure, if he's growing up strong and good ... smooth this BoR thing over as best you can. So, the boy stunk at paperwork? It wasn't paperwork I ever had to fill out when I was a scout. So his palms against mine, I'm not seeing a difference, except he had to be more officious than me. He has a crack at 10, I'd do everything I could to make sure logistics aren't in the way. Let the mom know you'll stand by the boy. If he wants to try to push the paperwork to get this MB train back on track, you'll help him. If he decides he'd rather slack there and do something different with his time, you'll help him.

Youth that age aren't stupid. I'm sure your silence spoke volumes. Pity the chap. He'll be brunt of the kids' jokes for years to come. Now, regarding enabling your kids to disentangle those issues for years to come, you need to find how to touch on the core difference where you part ways with this fellow. Then, find the moment, and it will only be a moment, where you can lay out to the youth that distinction in the most respectful way possible. At that time, you can ask them if they'd like to bring speakers in to talk about various views. A while back @CambridgeSkipper did something of the sort. It's a lot of work, that path. Sometimes you do need to speak up just to quiet things down ... I once, at summer camp, fended off one dad's conspiracy theory about a certain popular leader's religious persuasion by making a strong theological argument that I knew he believed. Later, another dad came up to me and said "I can't believe you just called him a Muslim!" I replied, "Not an insult in my world view." The week went much better after that.

It's nice to learn something new at someone else's expense. Because I don't know beans, thought I'd ask ... Anybody just cut the corner of the bag, fill will water and hang it or set in a small pot overnight? Just trying to think of ways to light-weight/leave-no-trace this activity.

I'm imagining my boys collecting pampas grass to start weaving at this very moment!

Palms are fun. When I was MC, BoR's for palms were the most fun, IMHO, because the boys were more knowledgeable about scouting and world events and less stressed. Back to the application http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/58-709_WB.pdf, which -- since it is not spelled out in the requirements -- is not what the scout needs to complete to have a BoR (but sure is convenient if he does): it's a lot like an MB application, the scout fills in some blanks, SM others, Comittee others, and council others. So what would I do with this? Have the scout and SM fill out the paperwork, ask the SM to back-date his signature to the point at which he felt the requirements were fulfilled. Have the board of review ASAP. Have fun with it! Ask the scout where he think that communication failed. Ask what he thinks you could do better next time. Ask how important it is for him to go for that 9th palm. The date of the BoR is the date of the BoR. Fill it in. Add a note that that the BoR had been delayed for two months and you consider the boy having passed as of the target date. (What else is that white space for?) If the scout is doing a great job and is indeed halfway to his next palm, schedule another BoR for three months after the date of the SM's signature. Get the application filled out. On it the scout can say he passed the board as of the intended date. By way of disclosure, he can put a footnote "see previous application regrading Troop __ committee's approval date." If council gives you push-back, say "Your problem, not ours. The boy's been providing continuous service full of scout spirit for the past six months. We think he met the intent of the requirements. You can expect another app three months hence on our stated schedule. Give national a call if you still think it's a problem."

STEM: measure the circumferance of a sphere in paces, from the inside! Estimate how far you could travel by rotating in a sphere. Determine the relative efficiency of traveling by propelling oneself from in a sphere across various liquid and solid surfaces. Develop and implement experiments to test these results.