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One more thought on this ... although these are all things that scouts can do ... they may not be the things that any given troop or even a venture patrol within a troop will do. For example, my 2nd wave of venturers were fully committed to Council and Area gatherings (and shouting across the dark autumn ravine "Hey, Boy Scouts, you wanna play cards?") ... a complete sea change from the 1st wave who, when other scouts were in the vicinity, pitched camp as far from them as possible. Looking back, I think this was because the Boy and Girl scouts in the first wave had had their fill of Camporees, Klondike Derbies, and other meets of like Jambo or the HA bases. Even in their respective troops, they actually were opting not to participate in such things. The second wave, however, had fewer such opportunities (thanks to their seniors' programming decisions). The third wave? Well I think the pendulum has swung back a little. They are also preferring to camp with friends who wont join the crew, which hurts our membership. The troop on the other hand ... well it is the result of boys from different troops preferring to camp with one another! They're having a great time. And although the older scouts talk about wanting to be in "the crew", they seem quite content with just what their troop is doing. So, I am trying to figure out if a crew will have anything to offer this lot.

Yes! Think nationally recognized certifications instead of MBs. Plus handguns.

Below David's, Question #2 What is your position in the troop? If it's an SPL or PL giving the answers, be impressed. Question #3 What was the favorite thing your boys did last year? Question #4 What do you look forward to doing this coming year? Ditch the JTE questions. Either they will have a ribbon on their flag or they wont.

A venture patrol is so much less administrative headache. I agree with your SM. Chances are, the culture that let things be done poorly before will let it happen again. Unless the CO or a couple of parents see the need for youth in the community who are not currently in the BSA, leave it at that. If only you and your daughters see the need, start the crew with a different CO. That's one way to get yourself out of that treasurer's job! As to what to do in North FL? Scuba, snorkel, kayaks/canoe trails, fishing, rodeos, the races ...

You are really asking a "chicken or egg" scenario that for years I have failed to understand. The attitude seems to be that filling out a schedule too far in advance leads to discouragement due to cancellations, etc ... except for summer camp, boys and adults would rather wait and say "what can we do next month?" Any activity that I've coordinated with the crew months in advance falls victim to "Oh, I didn't realize this was on my schedule. ... I just got this cool opportunity. ... Our family decided to move vacation up ... the CO changed the date for the troop fundraiser." So, quite a few recent events had about 1/5th the attendance that they could have. (I call it anti-synergism.) The troop, to a lesser degree, falls victim to the same thing. The new SM is trying to change that. And, much to his credit, he is starting with the PLC. We are trying to strike a balance where certain troop activities are anchored well in advance, and then the spontaneity will come from patrols/venturers deciding to do their respective activities around that. Boys going on an HA understand annual plans and set their schedule accordingly. But, unfortunately, we haven't had those in recent years.

Then you'll find there's not much in the HBs that you haven't already consumed. I would suggest that you and your son and his posse take this approach: Note the strengths and interests of the adults. Note the strengths and interests of the crew. Each youth pick one activity they would like to do by the end of this year. If they overlap with one another that's okay. If an activity doesn't match anybody's strengths that's okay too. Each adult determine if their is an activity that they could support a youth in implementing. (This might involve as little as providing the phone number of a consultant or as much as committing learn whatever.) This information is all you need for the first open house. Which should be sort of like the AA meetings: Hi, my name is ___ and I'm a {venturer/scouter}. I can {insert strengths} I wish I could {insert interest} Sometime in the next three months, I would like to {Insert activity} From there, you get to say "And here's how we're gonna do that". Exactly what you say next depends on your youth. If they are into bling, talk about ALPS; If they are into program, talk about the calendar; If they are into leadership training, talk about courses or clubs like Toastmasters. You won't be able to talk about it all (and you really shouldn't because you have 5 minutes max), so this part always ends with something like "And there's more, but all we need to know is if you want to be part of it (and can stand a little paperwork). Questions?"

One more distinction that I learned about: firearms. I heard that Brits only had access to air rifles. BSA camps try to at least provide a range with BB guns for Cubs and .22 rifles for Boy Scouts. In addition, shotgun and muzzle loaders may be available at certain camps ... Pistols and large bore rifles may be available to venturers.

Nice! If you are anxious for something to read, you can try the VLST syllabus: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/33491.pdf

I think differently. The end of summer committee meeting is just to touch base about how the year went. Did we spend what we expected? Can we afford all the bling earned? Any new merit badge counselors available? Anything on the CO's schedule? District schedule? Anybody itching to change positions? Who wants to visit the middle school? ... if it happens before the PLC, that info gets forwarded to it. If it happens after the PLC, the scoutmaster's report forwards along whatever the scouts decided to the committee. But then, we aren't all that focused on annual plans.

Most definitely he may! I had a scout whose CoH wasn't until after summer camp, and he wanted to wear his badge, I told him to bring it and on day 1, stop by my hammock. At which point I handed him my sewing kit and recommended the last of my white thread. It was probably the 1st patch he ever sewed on his own. Did a pretty good job at it too.

I'm pretty sure that's not what @@MrBob meant. Ain't nobody loosing if a kid is working on a rank advancement an MB of his own choosing. Certainly, the more he wants to do "right now" the more likely a lot of those things won't be accomplished. So, yeah, we need to check that. But, consider my first PL (who Eagled at 14 ... had his bird before I joined the troop). He nailed that mile swim his first year at camp, and was gearing up for Phlimont (had his jacket from there the first time I met him as well). The kid was raring to go out the gate. Now, I have no clue if he had earned any ovals before camp. The SPL was a stickler for details (transfer from another troop, specifically so SM could learn "the ropes"), so I'm pretty sure there were no "fast tracks." But this guy probably did knock it out as soon as he saw the "to do" list. So, for every rule you think should be there, you'll find a couple of exceptional boys who prove you wrong. Life's easier when you don't try reading between the lines.

I stand corrected. "Parents/Guardians" and I did not mean to imply a 1:1 ratio. In fact, it is some times better for some boys if they are there under the watchful eye of someone else's parent/guardian.

Yes and no. We have the same variety, but by far the most popular is a sort of outdoor merit badge university format. Troops are assigned sites usually provisioned with tents, cots, picnic tables, and dining flies and the tools to clean their own latrine, maintain a small campfire, and keep the site generally tidy. They may configure patrols on that site however they choose. If they opt for a camp with patrol cooking, they are also provisioned with the wherewithal for a small kitchen. Then boys schedule blocks of time in the day for their MBs of interest. During the day they troddle off to the respective areas for instruction (e.g. Field/Shooting Sports, Aquatics, Scoutcraft, Nature, Handicraft ...), and youth staff not much older than the boys are tasked with teaching under the supervision of adult directors. They may come back to the campsite at their leisure, and are expected to check in at set times (usually around meals). The camp our boys choose offers an hour of open program (e.g. go to whatever area you want just for fun) in the morning and afternoon. Generally each evening has a camp-wide game or campfire or some such other activity to get all the troops/patrols in camp together. In terms of facilities, they vary with geography and each council's long-term fundraising success. Girl Scout camp is similar. Although they tend more towards cabins instead of tents. Cub resident camps (mostly popularized in the 80s) work similarly, only boys are to be escorted by their parents. (Which may or may not increase the number of responsible people attending to the boys. ) Our cub-camp staff tends to be a little older and more mature.

I've seen the science center have some as well. But, our council arranges a number of events (haunted trail night, ski days) open to scouts of all stripes.Often times the ideas came from our Venturing Officer's Association.

Check Red's position patch. It might still be ASM! Yeah, I remember that "Young buck thinks hew knows is stuff", eye roll. Just put it in the form of a question, "Says here that Pack epaulets are blue for all adults. Think we should sync up?"

Meanwhile the Orthodox wait patiently for y'all to come back to the fold. (Reunions of mixed-religion family in WV were the best! Kinda prepared me for mixed religion troops.)

Let your bear DL know about his mistake. If you can afford to cover it, buy his epaulets on condition that someday he'll look into volunteering as an adult for a venturing crew. (Suggest he hang them from the bathroom mirror until that day. Mrs. Bear DL will love you for it!) Also inform your other den leaders of the proper insignia, but let them know nobody has to make any immediate changes. The one leader may be a leader in a troop, so you may do well to ask why their uniforms are the way they are. Say it once, don't harp on it. This is one of those things that you'll always notice but won't change how much your people love their boys.

Not according to the BSA charter agreement: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf Chartered organizations must utilize the Scouting program to accomplish specific objectives related to one or more of the following: o Youth character development o Career skill development o Community service o Patriotism and military and veteran recognition o Faith-based youth ministry

@@NJCubScouter, when did YOU earn your 1st MB? Tenderfoot? As soon as I unearth mine req book, I'll let you know if I can figure out which of mine came first.

@@RogueRiverRun, welcome to the forums! A boy wants to earn a MB? Got a good counselor for him? GIVE HIM HIS BLUE CARD! If he earns it before getting his scout badge, I'd give him the patch at a meeting, and tell him you would like his next badge to be oval. Then I'd turn to the Star and Life Scouts and say "Hmmm, new boy is earning MBs ... while you guys are doing what?" The trail to First Class is the real base in terms of preparing a boy to hike and camp independently with his mates. But not all MBs build off of that base. In fact, most don't. Also, in any troop I cared about, the trail to First Class took a couple of years to earn. Working on MBs never got in the way of a boy earning Scout. In fact many counselors, as they work with a boy, will ask about his rank, his patrol, etc ... So if the boy needs "that extra nudge" to advance an oval, he might just get it there.

I suggest both requesting a BoR under disputed circumstances and having a conference with the SM of the new troop, just to get his opinion. The reason? Well, it sounds like Zuzyson would dispute the reasons why SM is refusing to sign off. He thinks he should make Eagle in his current troop, but he's being denied for reasons that he deems to be unfounded based on BSA's rank requirements. However, the boy clearly wants to be in an environment that will welcome him and involve him. So, rather than waiting around for some responsibility in the new troop, he should talk to the new SM about the mess that transpired this year. The SM might include some other scouts, SPL or whomever. There may be some things that need to be done in the troop that would fit into his sports schedule.

@@mashmaster, every day? That's 20% Islamic! FWIW, nearly everyone I've met from the Southern Baptist convention has broken any stereotype applied to them. I've always maintained that attendance at vespers (which at our camp was only once during the week) be strictly voluntary. Certainly with our troop, we've felt the boys did just as well themselves. I agree with @@meyerc13, except with the OP you have a situation where a boy thinks that how he does things may offend, and maybe he thinks that if he changes how he thinks he does things, it will be worse. The CO has made clear that it wants things done in a way that everyone from every walk of life including parents can be comfortable. Therefore, it's the boy who will have to adjust. (Gotta give the kid credit for knowing this in advance.) So, having the boy talk to his clergy (maybe even giving the clergy a call yourself to understand where the boy may be coming from) might be a useful growing experience. It might help him understand what his boundaries really are, and why. It would also allow him a way to explain it to his troop-mates so that when he does lead prayer even when not fulfilling his PoR (say, grace at table), he does so in a way that makes others welcome. In the long run, that might actually make some lost sheep amenable to his Lord.

I think a lot of PLs would concurr with Pareto! Although a first year scout may disagree, there really isn't a lot of work for a patrol on an average outing: get there, pitch camp, keep warm, make food, clean-up, strike camp. Plenty of slack time. If you had a specialty team of boys go around and set up shelter, would they get it done faster? Most definitely! Best cooks in the entire troop prepare meals? Sure, the food would be tastier! We seem to always have that one boy who loves to split wood. If we never let anyone else in the ax yard, we could have four walls and half a roof of stacked board by sunset. But it's not really about perfect canvas, gormet meals, and a lumber yard. It's about taking care of your people. And I guess that's another reason for eight. If you're a slacker, there's seven people closest to you to call you out on it. It's a lot harder to slip through the cracks.

I'll also point out that most wilderness areas set a limit of no greater than 10 per party. More fragile areas may insist on even smaller numbers. I've seen when those limits are ignored, some trails can feel like grand central station. (E.g., four groups of 8 people walking by my site over the course of an afternoon is actually kind of fun. If all 32 passed by at once, I'd feel stampeded.)

Some of the topics had mentioned patrol size. We've touched on this before in heated discussion quite a few years back (http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/8394-patrol-size/page-5), and it was recently brought up in Bryan's blog (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/ideal-troop-size/). Eight, give or take a couple, most of us have found really works well for patrols. If we can get that many boys hiking and camping together regularly, their scouting experience seems to blossom. So, this topic is simply to discuss why? Science, pseudoscience, silly jokes, all explanations welcome ...