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In what age is it better if a lexicon depends on who's saying the word? Oh, never-mind.

The young lady in the article has a venturing shirt and World Scouting neckerchief. That pretty much qualifies as inside influence.

Well, there is no doubt that my direct influences are from scouts from other countries who find us utterly perplexing. My position, specifically, is that BSA should be quick to recognize "first class scouts" regardless of sex. But, I also believe that a lot of parents who look for a program specifically for boys will take their business elsewhere if BSA caters to special interests. This may result in a net loss of youth being served for a decade or more. So I can respect BSA's tentativeness. More importantly, detractors who argue, without proof, that girls are being harmed will only leave us wondering about why they aren't being helped by any adjustment made. If the total pool of scholarship dollars for girls is smaller than for boys, prove it. Then, prove that distributing scholarship $ due to Eagle awards to women who earn that award will make a dent in that imbalance. Finally, any external detractor of BSA's exclusions should put his/her efforts behind the model youth organizations that meet his/her approval. Any other action seems like trying to use boys as unwilling tools for social engineering.

Adults can provide the "muscle". Son #1 needed to mobilize a whole community of skilled and unskilled labor. I made coffee and doled out sandwiches. Son #2's project was the geekiest one I've seen - dozens of youth with laptops cataloging books, SM and I hauled off to a corner where we did something involving craftsmanship. So, yes, it's possible that adults get heavily involved. But it sure is fun when it's just your buddies. So, I encourage boys to pick projects that can involve a wide mix of people from the community, with priority on mobilizing their friends.

I'm still looking for proof of denied opportunity. Yes, GS/USA has set itself up so that hiking and camping monthly is not a priority. So, young women feel like they are being denied the opportunity to do that. They tell me as much. But, the vast majority aren't about to change anything. Careers? The only reason so many Eagles are noted for their distinguished achievements as adults is because of good marketing for 100+ years. If an award has only been available for 40 years, even the best marketing will not be able to associate it with half of today's distinguished women. NOW-NYC cites disparity due to scholarships awarded to Eagles, implying that fewer scholarships are forthcoming to Gold Awardees or girls in general. I'm not feeling it. My daughter raked in more scholarship $'s than my boys. The young lady in question wants opportunities. Well, look at her green shirt. I have a little book that lists the very distinguished awards that can be earned with it. Even if her petition fails, she has several great paths to success ahead of her. I look forward to seeing her as an officer in the Northeast Region.

The more I hear from folks who feel strongly about this, the greater diversity of opinions I discover. My Czech and Italian scouts simply don't understand what the problem is. The option of coed scouting was all they ever known, and their parents preferred that they come up through coed units. The Czechs are aware of the diversity of units in their district (all male, all female, and coed) and they thought their coed troop was best. The Italian (I don't think) has no knowledge of single-sex units except girl guides, and she is quite proud to not be a Girl Scout. Her "council patch" reads "Boy Scouts Italy" and, from the outset her patrol was mixed. None of the pride these kids have in their units had anything to do with awards that give one economic advantage in adulthood. In fact, upon reaching high school, the Italians, I'm told, no longer may peruse rank advancement. The Girl Scout Gold award is a challenging achievement, but it's only been around since the 80s. It's a shame that NESA has not expanded to recognize GS Gold awardees, and Venturing Silver (now Summit Award) recipients, But because of their singular focus Eagle has been hyped above other awards.

Agnostic = without thought. Sounds a lot like what my Bhuddist buddies are trying to say when they talk about non-theistic religion. Some agnosticism says that God is unknowable and therefore one should not commit to any religion. Others insist that any religious practice is foolishness, God is so far removed from he here and now that any religious practice is folly. Again, this boils down to how willing a scout(er) is to concede to what's laid out in the declaration of religious principle.

Often communities have mandates but no budget for fulfilling them. Some example: Tagging storm drains with "no dumping" warnings paint/stickers. That I would consider conservation. Take inventory inventory of every tree on every sidelawn. Also conservation. Take inventory of all signage in the neighborhood. Not conservation.

All of the advice here is reasonable. Sounds like you have a "hands off" COR. It's not clear how any of this will hurt your den. But, maybe it's not a bad idea to contact a neighboring pack about your den and their den of whatever you all get together for kickball or to visit a ball game or something fun. Getting to know other scouters in your district is a great way to learn how to handle these kinds of things.

But, is the SPL wrong? How? By being cost conscious? What seems like a couple of extra bucks for some can break the bank of others. Save $ on summer camp = one more weekend camping or working on an MB to offset what the cheap cussing camp doesn't offer. Pro tip: When told "all of the boys" want X, a good working assumption is that your son and his closest friends want it, the rest are probably ambivalent. To the boys, "Tough. Next time elect an SPL who will respectfully dig his heels in and represent you to the committee."

Welcome to the forums @@richie0829! Well, the cussing staff would settle it for me. But some folks value things like tradition and convenience. This is between the SPL and SM; however, there's nothing to keeping a patrol of boys and couple of adults from attending the other camp. Frankly, the fewer adults, the better.

Why? Because it's the scouter's "leap of faith." When I was an ASM with my sons' troop, I was assigned to be a patrol's "advisor". I think the SM was doing this to placate some adults' angst. After assuring the SM that I would happily assist him in that task, I went to the PL and said something like, "I'll be next door contemplating my next cup of coffee. If you think you need me. Think again. But I'm available." That PL never needed to talk to me -- except if he needed an espresso. But getting a reputation for not ripping things out of the boys' hands, I was often approached by PL's and TG's about their challenges. By way of full disclosure, we've had a run of boys who are so easy-going about who's in their patrols that they abdicate the responsibility of assigning patrols to the adults. At first, I thought it was our troop's tragedy, but those boys eventually aged out. Then I thought it was the merging troop's Web3 culture, but really that's not as pronounced. I think that it's because of lack of 1) physical distance camping and separate rooms meeting and 2) recognition as distinct entities during roll call, CoH's, etc... . We need a few more scouters and older boys taking "leaps of faith".

Go ahead, turn that knife! Teams who lose without giving up a touchdown aren't weak. They are just facing the Steelers.

That's not an NSP. That's a den.

further down in the statement they quote from the young lady's petition "I cannot change my gender to fit the Boy Scouts’ standards, ..." To which BSA may reply, "can't? Or, won't?"

@@SSScout, did the proponents of choice #1 open with, "On the card. Read the instructions. Do what they say."

Actually Scouts Canada are at about 60%. If they can sustain the gains of the past 5 years they may be at their original numbers by decade's end. However, their annual report does not clearly show the counts by sex, so we can only assume they are still serving far fewer boys than they once did.

Time to lasso a tangent ... Chalk it up to intolerance over transitioning?

The boys in my crew are interested in developing a "how to earn a merit badge" skit. If anything comes of it, I'll let you know.

@@Philzer, long time no hear! You need to be specific as to which worksheet. There are lots out there. If I were you, I'd only counsel from MB Pamphlet. If the boys find a worksheet on their own, bully for them. Otherwise, if it's confusing more boys than it helps, encourage them to use garden-variety composition books or field notes to organize their thoughts. (Son #2 started using docs on his smart phone.) For cooking, I'd also keep up to date with what's taught in the BS Handbook and Fieldbook ... as well as any interesting tips in Boy's Life or Scouting magazines. To any Cooking MBCs out there: the online MB Pamphlet? Worth the expense?

Your scouts are half right ... The goal is to be first class (the concept, not the patch). Success -- and this is no joke -- is when death is forestalled because boys are prepared. That is measured in little steps: minor cuts being treated properly, hike/float plans reviewed, everyone reading the map, fires tidy, dishes clean, rights and responsibilities understood, etc ... It takes a lot of work (via SM minutes, teachable moments, spur of the moment patch -- or if you're @@Stosh, field spec -- premiums) to get boys to understand that this game has a big purpose. This is a cultural issue. You don't have a culture of guides. And there is no cultural sense of urgency that the boys know first class skills. In some sense the PLC is always going to be steered by adults. Even with older youth, I have to be careful what I say and what gets said to my crew. Too much "push back", and they stop trying. But, the PLC might also be seeing that your first years aren't having nearly as much fun as they could. And maybe they were also seeing the TG's being set up for failure. Rather than choosing a boy who is a natural teacher, the SPL might have picked a boy who needed a PoR. And looking forward, if a class of boys ages out and you have two classes of boys not yet tenderfoot, the pool of potential guides will shrink. So, you'd better have one talented TG who's as skilled as your average professional educator. So we get back to the physical separation issue. If there is this concern with the older scouts, plan more cracker barrels, "leadership corps" activities, or even Venturing. In other words, acknowledge their need for social engagement, but balance it with the need to roll up sleeves to achieve troop goals. But my bottom line: don't fret over predicted problems. This is just another thing the boys will have to address as it arises.

Metaphors often fail. It's more a juggernaut with segments of its frame turning to flotsam. BSA holds sway over half as many scouting youth as it once did. This includes GS/USA, who abandoned the notion of "first class" in the 50s. Basically, girls (and their moms) stopped taking plays from boys' books. I'd say "rats" are, for example, everyone who participates in outdoor activities outside of BSA's influence. We know they're out there -- just not under anyone's umbrella. National Park Service reports record visits at nearly every spot in the nation. Someone's starting all these forest fires! Certainly in PA, our adult leadership has concluded it is not worth registering with Big Brother to stay on the roster when they can just take their boys and his buddies to "the cabin" in the National Forest. (Which, FWIW, tends to be along paved roads with land lines that weren't there before.) Sure, there's also the politically polarized ... who find that they can no longer use scouting to enforce some counter-cultural revolution. And, there are our post-modern nomads, who live so far from work and their kids' schools that hours of their free time is in a roving tin can. (Maybe we should get some commuter trains to sponsor a few units ... troop meetings in transit!)

You're in for a wild ride: At first, like @@Stosh, I observed that male-female distinction. But that first class of venturers was pulled together by highly motivated girl scouts with Seabase on their mind. Since then, every class of venturers in my crew has defied generalizations! I think the crew really wins when it has a balance of youth from different groups. It really, really wins when venturers spent their Jr. High years being expected to lead their GS or BS troop.

Agree. But, I'm not gonna tell a scout that she is not making a concession if that's not how her family brought her up. Doing so is a waste of everyone's time. Either you're okay with occasional weekends around people of diverse religion, or you're not. Either you're okay with folks devaluing atheism, or you're not. The last thing we should do is presume that they should be fine with BSA's DRP merely by virtue of association with X house of worship.

As a Steeler's fan, I instinctively fear for any team who is up 14-0 early in the 1st half. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory ... it's an art form. But, old-school W.Pa loves a good defense. My bottom line: if your team manages to sack Brady 4+ times, you've got mine beat. So, props to Houston and Atlanta for giving this old guy exactly what he wanted to see.