qwazse

Sounds like I have an weevil twin in the typo dept.

It's cut both ways for us. A couple of examples: When our troop restricted cell use, one first-year was feeling homesick and an ASM (or JASM, can't quite remember) loaned the kid his phone, which just made things worse. Begged mom to come get him on Friday. But, there were things going on with the parents that didn't help. He eventually quit scouts. Reminded me of when I was PL/SPL and a buddy joined us in a similar situation the SM eventually walked him down to the trading post and lined up at the pay phone to call his mom. Also, that was the last of his scouting career. The next year or so, a bunch of first-years insisted on setting up their dome tent. It got flooded in the night. They were afraid to wake anyone up about it, so one of them called Mom at 4am, who asked them why they didn't wake the SM. She then called the SM, who gladly got up and gave them a hand. Then he made them call mom the next day, and she made them apologize. That lot stuck it out for the rest of camp and a few years more. I've directed the troop to sites in valleys with zero reception, and boys would hike up to the ridge to get reception whenever one guy couldn't stand not hearing from his girlfriend. On the flip side, they put in probably an extra hiking mile. (Double that for my dog. He'd run up to them. I'd whistle him back. Repeat.) That boy got a good ribbing from the SM and about the ball and chain. So, the strict policy spares a lot of shenanigans. I have mixed results regarding homesickness. I certainly haven't seen troop life made that much easier with them banned vs. with them kept. As I mentioned before, what those things are doing to boys outside of meetings and campouts is my bigger concern. I will note this: family cell plans can cost the equivalent in camp fees over what a parent would be paying to feed their kid anyway. Same for cable. Just some suggestions you could throw out to parents who balk at the costs of things.

I am trying to counsel a venturer on avoiding manipulation via cell phone by co-dependent members of the opposite sex. This has nothing to do with usage at meetings or camp. I could ban them then -- with plenty of complaint -- for their own good or my convenience. I effectively do so by hiking them beyond the edge of the coverage map at every opportunity for adventure. But, our success at the adventures these youth want to have depends on their discipline during the other hours of the week. They need the leadership skill that will enable them to force their friends who want some talk therapy to join them in venturing (in the broad sense, not just in the life of our crew) through this beautiful world -- as opposed to their "friends" demanding undivided attention for hours on end via mobile devices. Ideas, anyone? [Moderators: if this sounds too tangential, a new topic would be fine.]

This is where seasoned scouters keep the BS out of the BS of A. Tell your word-smithy IOLS students: "Which scout would you hire to weed your lawn or garden (or for some, vineyards and orchards)? The one who shows you all the different plants he's pulled from it, or the one who's identified the desired from undesired?" Also, this is where you point out the importance of youth sign-offs. Controversies like this should be reviewed by the PLC who should then decide what the uniform course of action within their troop should be. Remind your students that, were they earning this rank from their SPL while in service to their troop, their search for the lowest common denominator would be a source of derision among their youth for years to come. P.S. - My camporees growing up involved scavenger hunts of, among other things, specific plants. We therefore memorized the pictures of all of the plants named in the BSHB. Our commissioner stumped us sorely when he added "hawkweed" to the list. We were the "college town" troop, and our patrols had to concede defeat to some "country bumpkins" on that one. Not our proudest moment.

People are looking at the weather forecast now, so you want to send a notice letting advisors know that you're looking at it as well. Give them a date/time for when you will decide to implement plan B. (Our crew's go/no go decision for weekend activities is usually Thursday evenings, I try to involve the officers as much as possible.) Plan B might necessarily be cancelling the event, so you want to have your call center prepared in order to get phone contact to every unit leader. Part of reaching out to units now is to make sure that you have correct contact information so that nobody arrives uninformed on Friday. If your plan B involves indoor activities/emergency lodging in a storm certified shelter let them know that. If there is a safe place for vehicles, let them know that. Although I haven't seen many venturers pull up with current model year vehicles, it may be a consideration. My minivan has a few pits from OK hail storms, If I were a novice with a new car, I might not take that so well. You're plan C may involve evacuation. Let them know before they come what the expected evacuation route will be. Do not hold the event if you do not think you can maintain efficient two-way communication with every unit. (Some VOA officers have been camp staff or otherwise have been trained in emergency management, others have not. So, this could determine your go/no go.)

I've started to call BS on the "fumes" explanation. Girlfriends can help on Eagle projects. Cars/motorcycles can get you to counselors and campouts. (Building a car could even get you a merit badge or two.) Girlfriends who want to hike and camp elect boy scouts into venturing positions of responsibility. Basically, if a scout has taken a while to earn 1st class and camping MB, he will probably take his time advancing to Eagle, until that age 18 deadline looms. (One reason why I wish that deadline wasn't there.)

#truth

Sorry for the senior moment, I meant ILST. But really, that's a second priority. It's not really for yourself. It's a course that you would use to train the youth leaders in your troop some weekend. Think of it as a pre-NYLT. As far as recruiting, the guys that stick in a troop are usually the ones who manage to come camping with you all. The main thing that you want to do is try to make sure every boy in your community has been invited some way to join your troop. For Webelos in the area, that usually means sending one of your guys to be their den chief. That should have already happened if you want to garner the most from this years class of cross-overs. For older boys, that means a personal invite. The best are when you can help hold an assembly in your middle school(s). Then you and your fellow scouts try to meet and remember the names of every boy in attendance. Same thing goes for if you march in a parade or raise the colors in a sporting event. Stay in uniform afterword, if you see some friends your age, invite them to hang with you and get an ice cream or something. 4th point = friendly. That doesn't always work, but if there's ice cream involved, who cares? 8th point = cheerful. Like I always told my kids, go out, be safe, talk to strangers.

Most cross-overs dream of Eagle, a few put in the time over a period of years to achieve it. Most musicians dream of being a star, a few put in the time and sacrifice to achieve it. Most athletes dream of the championships, a few amass the self-discipline, strength and skill to arrive. They all have the same pattern. I guess they all start with being sufficiently inspired to have the the time. Other people learn to make friends and wind up running for president. Don't write the little one off just yet.

Oops. I only read 2nd class #4 as referenced in the original post. I didn't realize 1st Class #5a did not have parallel construction. I guess the English Hornbeam on Muddy Creek that stumped an adult and me wouldn't count. ... After all that time drawing the bark pattern and tracing the leaves, and pulling references once home. (Daughter couldn't believe we spent so much time perplexed about that.) I approve of Flagg's approach. Defer to the 12 year-old botanist.

@@swilliams, Welcome to the forums, and congratulations to having such an active and engaged child ... good luck keeping up with him! (If your kids are like mine were, you're in for a very busy couple of decades!) The first step (actually a bunch of little steps) is for a boy to work on becoming a first class scout. All of the skills needed to do that are described in his handbook, and the some of the older boys in his troop should have become good enough instructors to teach him. In a perfect troop older boys (usually patrol leaders) teach, test, and sign off on new scout's mastery of skills. Not every troop is perfect. The challenge that very active boys have is setting priorities. My Son #1, in 7th grade, after an exhausting trip with the band, said "That's it, Scouts first, Soccer second, band third." After he settled on that, we could support him accordingly. (I myself put scouts, science, youth group, and music first. Sports was just not my thing.) Your son should soon lay out his priorities, and that should help with that process. Sometimes, one priority will push rank advancement to the bottom. (E.g., the best scout I ever knew aged out at 2nd class rank.) In a boy scout troop, that's okay. (Although most of us really try to encourage at least slow and steady advancement over 5-7 years.) The second challenge with very active boys is that scouting -- even if rank advancement is not a priority to the boy -- takes time to get the most out of it. A fifty mile backpacking trip in rugged terrain starts years before by committing weekends camping, hiking, mastering skills, procuring and modifying equipment. Even the seeming simple process of hiking and camping independently with your mates (what I've come to call the pinnacle scouting experience) takes time learning who your real friends are, who is a good citizen and will respect the property they hike on or camp in, and who has the right equipment and skills to make the day or night out truly fun. Sometimes, those people will also be your band and sports buddies, but often times you need to accept a different set of friends (maybe even reach out to strangers outside of your troop) to do that activity. If your son makes First Class rank, and is still scouting 3 years from know, lots of such opportunities will open up to him. So, the next practical step that I tell 11 year old active boys is to make themselves useful to their parents to the tune of about $100 a month (above the usual things he may spend money on). That way, by the time he's old enough, he will have saved what he needs to enjoy some big-ticket scouting. (And things around your house or business might look better than you would have expected. ) Or, if he decides that scouting isn't for him, he will have the resources to participate in other activities ... or even help his family in a pinch. So, focus on your boy being a First Class scout. Then, once he has that patch, ask him what his plan is. By then he would have had 3 conferences with his scoutmaster, and 3 boards of review with your troop committee who will have asked roughly the same question. Help him with that answer!

We call those "underage" women who we sneak on some outings "venturers in training".

Overthink example: Where do you find "native" in he requirement?"... found in your area ..." My aunt, (the oldest living campfire girl) likely saw a very large cat in her garden. We think in her frail state, she identified a migrating cougar. At one time the word would come easily for her. Such beasts are no longer native to northern WV, yet. But it would count toward the list. Although a full set of prints and snagged fur sample would have helped settle the argument. So a scout saw a distinctive kind of tree. Help him find its name, determine where it came from, speculate as to how it got there and how long it's kind will remain. This is what a first class scout does. Or, has wondering at the wide world been written out of advancement?

Welcome! When there is only one patrol in a troop, the SPL can be redundant. But in general the SPL's goal is to support each PL as he does his job. So key questions to ask are: What do you want to do? What do you need to do it? It sounds like you've asked those questions, and you think some of those other people have answers for you, so yes invite them. But, it could be that they have something the entire troop should hear (like a special event or service event or service project), in which case you put them on the troop meeting's agenda. There is are two books: Senior patrol Leader's Handbook, Troop Leadership Training Course. Have you read them?

Invasive species are, by definition, wild. If they were tame, they wouldn't invade. I think a scout being able to identify, say, Japanese knotweed, is ready to plan a service project to clear the marsh of it without destroying the cat tails as well. Use advancement as a springboard, not a benchmark.

I take the wording to be non-scientific because this is not a STEM requirement. I want my PL's to ask leading questions like how the scout could tell one from the other? What signs of the flora or fauna did he observe. What did he think the critter or plant was doing? Did it make sense that some of the items were together (e.g. Why would bear scat be near berry patch?) On our nature walks, I ask scouts to close their eyes and determine what they could identify, (calls, footfalls, feel, smell). I challenge them to use their discoveries to infer what's going on that day. I look for that report from any scout, regardless of rank, so as a matter of course, the scout will meet this requirement. We've observed that walking sticks have become rare in these parts, of late. So if a scout counts that as one of his ten, I would be inclined to accept it. But, if the list only contained insects, I'd ask him to read the requirement closer.

Maybe this one? http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/26740-parents-writing-eagle-references-for-child/?p=407383 I pointed to one of my replies because, although I talk about putting negative things in writing, I've never felt that I've had to.

My Italian scout informed me that rank advancement ends at 14. After that it's service and camping, etc ... You might want to put in for a transfer.

We don't use squirt guns/super-soakers, etc., we only use mobile heat-stroke care delivery devices. Our victims simulate desperately needing core temperature reduction while so delirious they evade rescue.

We're all just one poor beggar telling another where to find food. There is a natural synergy between leadership an management. Doing one often helps develops the other. But, let me harp on PoR's a little more. There are no "lesser" positions in a troop. There are some that count for certain rank advancement, and some that don't. There are some that explicitly demand leadership (hint: look for the word "leader", "guide", or maybe "master") on the patch, and some that demand other skills, not necessarily leadership. Thus our bugler could be a leader, but he could be following the SPL's cues. We won't know until the SPL sleeps in or stays late at cracker barrel. Our historian could be leading, or he could be surrounded by PL's who hand him photos or story lines and requests them to be scrap-booked. Same for the other PoRs ... Flip that around, an SPL/PL could be managing ... posting rosters on time, looking sharp for flag, reading announcements ... but behind him are the scribes, QMs, guides, etc ... pushing the troop along. What this means for the Eagle candidate (especially going back to the OP): if he has a particular project in mind, and the only go-getters the troop are PL's with barely enough time to keep the troop on an even keel, he might rather get his labor force from his band members, sports team, or the guys/gals at the sportsman's club. On the other hand, if he's seen every boy in his troop put heart and soul into their respective PoRs (because the SMs have always expected as much from every PoR), those boys will be his first-choice recruiting pool. Captain's first job: picking a crew.

Some of us have been following this fellow, God bless him. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/04/19/before-cancer-took-him-scout-wrote-a-powerful-poem-reminding-us-to-live-every-day-to-its-fullest/ School Days: A Poem by Evan Macrone Throughout life I have learned That you can’t stay clean on a camping trip Even if you shower every day That you can’t enjoy delectable doughnuts from Dough Or pizza hot out of the oven That you can’t avoid bites by bugs From pesky gnats, ticks, and no-see-ums And you can’t get a thick sanctuary from the weather Just a stuffy, flimsy tent. But you also can’t hike mountain trails Go canoeing, kayaking, small-boat sailing, Tubing, skiing, sightseeing, fishing, Pioneering, swimming, snorkeling, and scuba diving Cook meals for friends Sleep under a night sky full of stars If you are cooped up at home, hunched over, Playing a video game Or at school, Taking an arbitrary test that will uniquely decide your future Of being cooped up in an office till you croak. So go and get out there And maybe live a little Cause God knows, You could get cancer any day Or get caught in a car accident And how many days before that Will you regret?

@@Ankylus, good questions. 1. Rule #1: don't ask for a rule, it will come back to bite you. In Irving are the last people who I would find qualified to legislate any same-sex couple, thruple, or whoever else who may join us on the trail. 2. I don't know what you mean by "invoking." By virtue of dealing wih venturers and the occasional mom chaperoning with the troop. we follow this rule without dissent. Already, there are plenty of instances where my venturer's (or troop moms) would be just fine in mixed sleeping quarters without putting up a tarp/divider, or having the odd woman out pitch a tent. My other adult leaders have said so. But, the last thing I need is to be pilloried by someone who wasn't even on the particular trip over YPT. BSA provides people of the same sex a rule: they can tent together. Period. Follow it. Done. 3. See point 1 above., and page 1 of G2SS "In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners." There in writing is the "use your judgement" directive you were looking for. All this is why I prefer to sleep under open sky.

Congratulations on having such fun scouting you want to keep at it. Wrapping up those partials is a good idea. How that's done is up to your counselor. So, if it is a badge you started last somewhere, the counselor may let you use the requirements that were in effect when you started. If it's been a few years and you only completed a couple of the simplest requirements, the counselor might rather you use the new requirements. So, bottom line: it depends.

Cross the road bed, up hill about 50 ft, dig. The bed itself should have enough rock to filter seepage from thousands of cat holes for centuries. Of course, in some parts getting that far up hill could be a very long walk.

I'm gonna pick on this statement just a bit. This is scouting for boys -- especially this requirement, which was adopted well after BSA mandated the age limit on rank advancement. If the Eagle project was intended to mean "management," the requirement would have said so. If it was intended to be of a larger scale than any other projects the boy has done as a scout, it would have said so. If positions of responsibility were intended to train in "leadership" they would all have the word "leader" on them. I say this, because we routinely expect scouts to plan and implement service projects. The oval on their patch is immaterial. Sometimes the projects they do before Eagle are tougher than their Eagle project (albeit with fewer signatures and reporting requirements and perhaps more for the unit or a camp than for an external beneficiary). So the Eagle project is more like the debutante ball for a seasoned scout. PoR's are simply a way to allocate management responsibilities across the members in the troop. There are jobs that need to be done, boys need to do them. There is a synergy between the two concepts. Some leadership skill is gained while managing ... starting with leading yourself to do your appointed task. Then leading others in contributing to your task, etc ... And every time we lead (or plan, or develop) a project, we pick up some management "nugget" (e.g., task allocation, scheduling, training, after action review, etc ...). But mainly, we learn to lead (form a vision, inspire others, incorporate others, etc ...). That's why when I look at where most leadership opportunities are throughout the advancement method, I find them in the service requirements. And, when I look at where most management opportunities are, I find them in the positions of responsibility. The really fun part, is watching it all come together when the boys work at mastering scout skills. But, IMHO, the First-Class skills are really a yard-stick to help a patrol measure its leadership and management potential.