qwazse

That ship is sailing ... just like independent patrol camping ... with or without BSA's sanction. Girls will get "on paper" one way or another. (Frankly, a young woman with "completed Eagle Scout requirements, sex notwithstanding, just for fun" on her resume would hold my attention better than many young men with the actual award.) Mike S's stance is simply the worst of all possible worlds -- except the one where extra paperwork is adored. @Gwahir's question is valid. The answer boils down to are they doing it for good reasons? Is it activism or answering needs. Then the rest of us rule followers have to suck it up as "older sons" and figure out what works best for "the prodigals." For example, rather than "paralleling" packs and troops, beef up liaisons with Campfire USA and offer parents who would rather run girls and boys through a similar program a way to transfer their unit to that program, run that program as long as they'd like, switch back to a Pack or Troop if the girls drift away. Figure out what accomplishments in one program may count for awards in the other program. That gives whatever Cubmaster or Scoutmaster the freedom to lash hulls to a different ship. And, lean on NESA to extend its recognition to the highest awardees in other programs (venturing would be a good start), and give the kids opportunities to compare notes so they can decide how to make it all better for their kids. OA? That's a tiff between progressive national lodge chiefs and reactionary advisors. I wouldn't even go there. Let them test the waters, and even if the whole organizations goes co-ed, give them the right to say, "Sorry, still no girls allowed."

Yeah, national are inept control freaks, and they're listening to marketing experts, ignoring their base, yada yada. This is nothing new, and they are fooling nobody. Folks who like this idea will express their enthusiasm, folks who don't will reply accordingly. Execs will pick their path. Not defending them, just saying that if this is a reason to leave, we're a few years to late.

I disagree with Fred on this one, given that the SM and the scout have already talked. The badge was issued in error. Hold it until the boy completes it under the guidance of a trusted counselor, such as yourself (we presume). Make the process of actually completing the requirements as fun as possible for the boy and his family -- as it should be with this particular badge. As Flagg suggests, incorporating some troop activities along the way can really boost your program,. Unless the camp has a general store where the boys can purchase the ingredients for their patrols to cook their specific menus, this was a grievous error on the camp's part. Real camp directors (like my former SPL, shout out to Tim) stopped offering this MB in camp. Inform other volunteers, and if this camp is in your council, consider bringing the issue up at round table. Help the SM determine if this happened with more than just this MB. Start collecting brochures for other camps. Let the camp director know you are considering going elsewhere next summer.

My apologies if this sounds like I'm talking behind BP's back. I honestly don't know if by resigning, he also abandoned this forum. I'm not sure what the his principle is. He said he watched the video. (I'm assuming prior to completing the survey.) Then, he's indignant over national telling people to watch the video prior to completing the survey. I feel bad that I may have contributed to the rage by considering the "family accessible" mantra as doublespeak. On the other hand, it was National's decision to choose imprecise language to market this concept, and I wrote my SE warning that this tactic would only entrench the boots on the ground of this organization. It's no different than the moms who I love and cherish who are all up in arms about our boys hearing the POTUS speak live. You don't have to like them man, but please respect that our boys are smart enough to apply the good head we're putting on their shoulders. If someone's opinion may be swayed by CSE's golden voice, so be it. But, give National it's due. (Although, really, it would be nice if they provided a link to the video in the survey.)

Bye?

I would rather hear from Johnny Red after he put in a few months trying ... telling us how he got 'er done, or didn't.

Never let the poor behavior of a few overshadow the good of the many.

I already discussed the qualifications of the average DAC/CAC. Seriously, give yours a call and find out how prepared they are to rule on the particulars of venturing awards, or, if they would rather defer to a venturing committee or VOA. Here is the quote in full regarding "ensuring advancement reports" from crew committee challenge (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-902_WB.pdf page 15) omitting references to boy scout advancement and my emphasis underlined): Recognition Explain that if any of the participants have been on a troop committee, they will remember that maintaining advancement records, arranging boards of review, and conducting courts of honor were the responsibilities of the committee. Point out that in Venturing, the responsibility for recognition falls to the crew leaders and Advisors. There are no ranks in Venturing, but there are awards that Venturers may earn. While the crew committee does not take an active role in awards and may or may not have a person assigned specifically to awards, the committee still has a supporting function in ensuring the crew’s program offers youth the opportunity for recognition. Ask participants how the crew committee might do this. Answers may include: Cooperate with the crew Advisors on supporting goals for the crew. Work together with the crew Advisors to ensure the youth are recognized properly and promptly for their achievements. Provide expertise for consultants for Venturing awards. Serve on crew reviews for appropriate Venturing awards and boards of review ... when asked. Ensure advancement reports are submitted to the local council. Help the crew’s leaders secure the awards and certificates. From, this, I conclude that the committee serves as mail-clerk, not referee. Resolving disputes over syntax happens only at the pleasure of the youth leadership. Rest assured, I'm not harping on this to be picky. It stems from about the only lesson that I've learned over the past 12 years as an advisor: It is profoundly demoralizing for youth to realize that -- by the book -- something that should be in their purview has been co-opted by an adult. Don't let that happen in your crew.

I had two experiences with different people on a family vacation in Rocky Mt. National Park. The first was on a drive back down from Pike's Peak when two of us stopped to look for a geocache, one person felt two sick to come out of the car, and another person stayed with him while he rested. The first person was fine on the second day, but that was within 24 hours of when the second victim arrived. We hiked up to the continental divide (about 12K ft) and being an MD and an avid runner and having grown up hiking the high Sierras, he was starting to panic about how he felt. We were hitting our turn-around time so it made sense just to walk back down and monitor things. It's amazing what a difference less than 2K ft makes! Good thing, too. His 11 yo daughter needed a piggy back out for the last 6 miles! We don't know the details of this story, but I can understand how intimidating it might be to move camp down-slope just before nightfall. If you never experienced seeing someone recover quickly at lower altitude, you might not believe the benefit is worth the risk.

Again, this boils down to the mission and vision of a particular crew. Crew 123 may envision itself as raising up staff for Camporees and Jamborees (both girl- and boy- scout). Therefore, they may put these events as crew activities through which service is delivered and time helping old ladies across the street as service delivered personally. Meanwhile, Crew 124 may envision itself as making sure old ladies safely traverse boulevards that have cordoned off their community. Therefore, they may mark old lady migration assistance days as crew activities, and going off to staff a scouting event at the standard volunteer rate as service delivered personally. I know, scouting is rife with absolutists -- thanks to the rigid Boy Scout requirements and narrower range of activities, but Venturing is situational. (Or, as I say to new advisors, you're in for a wild ride.) Thus, I re-emphasize, for the sake of every advisor who is beleaguered by envious helicopter parents: tell your committee to follow the rules, butt out of advancement particulars, support the youth's program, do not dictate it! There are more important things for committee's to do. (E.g., finding knowledgeable consultants regarding over-boulevard zip-line harness/helmet combos suitable for little old ladies on shopping day.)

Scouting: not just a natural high.

Well, then, lock all the men who you trust in a room, and tell them to figure out who is going to trade paycheck for smiles. Maybe it will be one of the male guardians who comes to the GSUSA recruiting table. Good luck to you.

Really? "quite well"? If "quite well" means fastest decline of all divisions, then it's no wonder BSA machinates over unpopular programs.

This is why millennial is a misnomer, and I prefer post-modern nomadic. It used to be if you got a new job 20 miles away, you up and relocated family to live within walking distance of the job. Now, committing hours a day to commuting past lots of places you wouldn't dare live is the norm.

I find all the marketing mumbo-jumbo nauseating. It's delusional to consider a Cubbette program without considering one thing: Cubs grow up and crossover onto a troop. So what would Cubbettes cross over to? Boyettes? Even burka-laden Saudis would think that stupid. I also find the paranoia about losing the "single sex safe space" overblown. However, I like you guys, and would rather not have your boys lose you on account of this. I'd rather them spend time with tons of co-Ed scouts from all over the world and put a BSA membership decision off a couple of more years until they've heard the good, bad, and ugly from them. In the meantime, I'd rather have honest partnerships that directs concerned families to Campfire USA, and elevates whatever recognition their program delivers. And, frankly, I'd rather NESA would shut up about Eagle already. We need more marketing of First Class scouts.

That was supposed to +1 NJ. Although, I would have put it more subtly: get a mirror.

Tell your SM to keep the BS out of the BSA.

To be clear, it's the US and Saudi are the only WSOM organizations who are unisex. Iran's movement has floundered since the revolution. Private parties are trying to restart it. It's not clear if it is co-ed. It seems to at least run parallel programs for girls and boys. (Gathered from pictures. I can only read about three words of Persian.)

My scouting career basically began with me going down to the basement and pulling my brothers' gear from the rafters. Then raiding mom's pantry for cans of food. No research involved. None of the stuff was anything I'd ordinarily buy. Same applied to my sister's stereo and abandoned records. So, this service might fill that gap (smaller families, fewer older siblings leaving stuff around the house). It's popular enough that they are still in business after a year. Still, if you can, give a kid some bills and a ride to a sporting goods store.

It must be a regional thing. I'm not surprised at all.

@@Stosh, we had a similar experience. Only it was a BOY scout from another troop untrained in the patrol method and patrol cooking. But, with our situation the options were integrate fully or go home. They opted for integration. When the only options are stay marginalized or partially integrate, it can only end badly.

For the non-allergic ... Peanut butter in the morning oatmeal.

Oh, sure. I really like our DAC. He personally attends to every Eagle project workbook. Guided my sons and many other boys in the troop very well. Is a go-to guy for Boy Scout rank advancement. Help me with disabled scouts and Medal of Honor candidates. Wears his tan field uniform quite well.How many venturing awards has he processed? He could count them on the fingers of his left knee! Maybe yours is better prepared. Ask when's the last he/she handled, taken a course on, or read all the requirements for the new venturing award. My advisors (advisors should always have good advisors) were found on the council venturing committee. Some things they'd give me a direct answer for. Other things it was, like "Have you asked your crew officers?" Or "Let your crew president give the VOA president a call." Who is your volunteer advancement administrator? Crew Committee Challenge makes clear that it's officers and advisors. My line to my crew about advisors: good for nothing and best used that way. So, you can read that line from the GTA quite literally, but the only people who should be contacting your DAC are your crew offices under your advice. In other words, maybe give them name of the DAC for them to call if they are at an impasse. But if is they conclude there is no impasse, there is no call to be made.

Although I agree with @@Stosh, that BSA opens the door for this kind of sentence-parsing every time they require bean-counting, I will insist that Venturing is not, nor ever was, designed for parsing syntax like you are trying to do! This is not your problem to solve. You can have whatever opinion you want. But, the ultimate decision falls on the youth, and frankly, your opinion might not mean a hill of beans to them. What you need to do, is prepare them to navigate choppy waters: Have your officers do this: Read the minutes your crew secretary published, and officers subsequently approved regarding motions for service projects. If a motion was approved for the crew to send youth representatives to Jambo to volunteer as staff, then it is a crew service project. If such a motion was made but subsequently overturned or no motion was ever made, then it is not a crew service project. If no minutes were published, fall back on your crew's calendar of events. If volunteering at Jambo was not on the calendar, it was not a crew service project. Frankly, if ScoutBook was worth the dime in electricity and internet service you all wasted to run it, it would automatically know to map the venturer's participation in designated crew activities to their service hour tally for each award. This would be logged, by the way, by the crew historian or secretary, not some member of committee. If your crew kept no calendar of events, then ask the BoR to choose its two adult non-voting members carefully so as to get reasonable opposing views on the matter. Hold the board for this venturer promptly so as to clear the air on the matter. Let this be a lesson to them that there is a downstream cost to not adopting rules of decorum in the management of meetings. STOP interpreting requirements, tracking advancement by adult leaders, and committee arguing about matters above their pay grade and yours. START making this about youth leadership (not leadership development, that's a method of boy scouting, not venturing). CONTINUE trusting your youth to do an excellent job by listening to the issues, conferring among themselves and touching base with their Council, Area, Regional, and National VOA if this is still a problem for them.

My crew doesn't have a problem with this because they don't care about advancement. However, I have had committee and parents take issue with my youth in a similar fashion, so ... My take? Ban Scoutbook. Through it information was leaked to a parent ... information which nobody besides the venturer and his/her advisor should be privy. The crew officers are responsible for discipline within the crew. That includes determining if a member is playing fast-and-loose with requirements. So says http://www.scouting.org/filestore/venturing/pdf/512-940_WB.pdf Discovery and Pathfinder Boards of Review Composition of the Discovery and Pathfinder Boards of Review Discovery and Pathfinder boards of review consist of the award candidate’s peers in the crew. The board is chaired by the crew president, unless the president is the subject of the board; then a crew vice president becomes the chair. There is no required number of Venturers for the board, but a group of three—the chair and two members—is considered most appropriate. Fewer than that does not fully reflect the importance of the award Venturing Board of Review Guide 3 milestones. The chair selects the other board members from the crew. Two adults registered with the crew, preferably members of the crew committee, must be present during the board of review in a nonvoting advisory capacity. The crew Advisor and associate Advisors are not members of the board of review, but may be present as observers, and they may serve as one or both of the registered adults present. At no time should there be more adults than Venturers present at a board of review. ... Now, I could give you my opinion on "to count or not to count?" But, that would be overstepping the authority vested in your officers under your guidance. I am not one of the two select members of your crew's D&P BoR; therefore, I am in no position to advise them. Tell your youth the book says it's on them to determine if the spirit of the requirements are met. Tell your disgruntled parent that a stranger on the internet told them to go pound sand. Edited so you could have the line I've used for times like this: "I'm not about to be bothered about the burrs up anyone's butt, including yours."