qwazse

I don't know why this is sad. A council has a particular scouting culture. It's worked for them. Another council has a different mix, and now can adjust to that demand. Maybe there are scouters there saying, "Sadly, the CO down the road is rolling out BSA4G."

Really? Speculation is just now going on? I don't speculate. It doesn't matter what size font they print FAMILY SCOUTING on the flyer. I choose the most sensible name and stick with it. So it's BSA4G until someone proves otherwise. If they were "Scout Troops", then why does my CO need two of them? The only reason would be because there's two programs. The existing one for boys and a new program for girls who want to do the the things boy scouts do. My crew never needed two advisors. Why? Because it was one program. Our pack never needed two cubmasters for the same reason. By pitching it as the separate program that it is, we share an honest vision of what I think most scouters are willing to provide. No double-speak.

Not sure how this is a federal lawsuit? That said, 90K for a state-wide contract sounds like chump change. Not sure why the council wouldn't pay up, unless the quality of the service was so bad they had to use a different provider to meet the needs of its campers. This might come down to a determination of who breached first.

So the first scentence ("No."), doesn't mean "No"? Not a very progressive step in welcoming young women.

I wouldn't train particularly for any badge. But, I would check over the years if felt I gained enough to counsel an MB as I accumulate hobbies.

No. But the further in that we hike the fewer we get! Is that disruptive of the patrol method? Yes. Does it help adult association? Yes. It certainly gives some people for the SM to talk to when the boys are on autopilot. Note that we have not had the trouble other troops have had with helicopter moms. Most moms don't join us. The ones who do have been great. We have had some helicopter dads, the physical distance helps us manage them by setting the tone.

It's great to see your passion, but you need to find a balance. Either you let your son move on and stick around in an official position with the pack, or you move on with your son and plan for a period where the pack will be in a slump. We have involved adults who do both, and it either works as long as everyone is welcoming and flexible. But, let's say you move on to the troop, and nobody takes up the slack. Time for a plan B. Use your experience with your "found Webelo" to ask for help looking for middle-school boys who aren't on anybody's radar because they are no longer or never have been cubs. There's lots of ways to do that: plan boy-talks at schools, visit PTA meetings, community fairs, put up flyers, etc ... One dad did that for us and we had some awesome boys join our troop. In other words, you have options with or without a pack. Be prepared to leverage them.

You can only rarely work with a toxic attitude. It's a good sign that you haven't seen one in this scout. About half the time, I've seen casual or uncommitted scouts really grow from the challenges we've thrown down -- turning into intentional and dedicated young men. But you never know who will succeed until six months later. Still, it's worth the effort.

@David CO is right if indeed this boy has a toxic attitude. In that case apply the same rules to a different POR If the boy has just been treating scouting as a side show, and is changing his attitude, he could wind up encouraging boys to not slack. We can't tell which it is from this side of the Internet from @gblotter's troop. Only an ASM or a mature scout who knows the boy can help discern that.

They don't call it "House Flipping MB!" In a year and there'll be routine maintenance, alarms to check, shelves to hang, touch-up paint, holes to spackle. Try to get the church's custodian into the habit of sending the COR over with a list of things to check and repairs to make. Have the SPL go over it with the PLC and see how they can divide and conquer. The first drywall nail I ever pounded (heck, the first cut I ever made with a mitre box) was in our scout-room. One work-day with about four other boys and the SM did wonders for my self-esteem.

@MarkH, welcome to the forums. IMHO, your troop was right in letting scouts elect their SPL for as many terms as they can stand the youth. The job is not a "let every eager scout take a turn" kind of position, any more than captain of a varsity school team would be. It may be that your son's leadership style was "unpopular" with the boys. Either he needed to improve his style, or the boys are wrong. Doesn't hurt to learn early in life that both are possible. Your SM doesn't have a purpose for his JASMs. His loss. No point in a responsible boy like your son taking a useless job. If he's having fun as an O/A Rep then he should lean into that. It could be that there's a boy or two who aren't getting elected. Sharing his experience could be helpful to such a boy who doesn't understand why his peers rejected him. Likewise with the Outdoor Ethics Guide ... if boys are learning cool skills from him, he should keep it up and see if he can find which scout would qualify to be next year's guide! On the flip-side, devoting all of his time to his venturing crew would also be a "win." A troop is better served by a boy who heavily invests in the program he loves then comes back with his crew-mates to support an activity the troop would like to try rather than a boy who mopes and feels stuck (although it sounds like that's not your son).

My gut tells me that the PoR is where you will really want to see his growth. There are simple reasons for this: He hasn't spent his time as a life scout around the troop, and it doesn't sound like you have heard from any of his peers or his other coaches teachers, etc ... . You need to vouch that you personally have seen how capable leader he's become. A PoR like TG is not about the number of dog-and-pony shows he puts on. It's about guiding boys in becoming a solid patrol with great leaders. It's also about helping the SPL with a couple of boys who joined late or are playing "catch up" for whatever reason. Lot's of applicants have Eagle Scout on their resume. Few have "Troop Guide", fewer still can write a good essay about it. But, those who do will likely stop an admissions officer in his/her tracks. Being skilled in welcome newcomers is something that colleges actually pay for. So, rather than lay out a minimum number of meetings etc..., team up with your SPL and make a plan like this: He will be given the position for two months. At that time your or the SPL (or you, during SMC's) will touch base with the scouts he's supposed to guide and ask them, "Do you know your troop guide's name? Did he help you? How?" Based on what those boys report, the SPL and you will decide if he should hold the position for another two months. If not, you'll meet with him offer him a week or two break in which time he can look at the troop meetings/activities and see if there's another position of responsibility he'd like to try. In all cases, continuing in a position will be determined by the net result (for TG, the net result is boys who feel they were guided well), and because you're also trying to develop the SPL's leadership, communication. So, part of the position involves attending PLC's, cracker barrels on camp-outs, etc... because what he observes as he fulfills his PoR will help the other boys fulfill theirs. The plus side for a Life scout: if he's attending regularly, he'll have access to caring adults who will want help him succeed in his project and other paperwork. Needless to say, we should all be doing this for every PoR we hand out. With most scouts who attend weekly, we can let them in on these real benchmarks gradually. But, just like Son #1 who signed up to be the kicker his Senior year, if you haven't been around, you need to know up front that you'd better put in extra time, learn your special team's every move, and learn how to tackle the star running backs that nobody else could stop! If you lay out specifications like that, and the boy doesn't flinch, then he's probably ready to score the deciding point in playoffs earn eagle.

This "long-leash" principle is pretty common. We need to remind ourselves that we're dealing with an age range of 10.5 - 18. Moreover, the age of our parents is even wider. That's a lot different than most schools and sports leagues. When our school board decided to consolidate middle and high school kids into the same building, there was a huge outcry from parents of elementary school kids. I had had a positive experience when my 8th grade was moved to my high school, but I was less perturbed. Some of my teachers were brought up in one-room-schools (the old buildings were historic landmarks ... some of which we'd pass while hiking), so in addition to scouting, the concept wasn't strange to me. But, for others, thinking about all that is a bit traumatic. That's why the ideal committee guides the parents of younger scouts, the ideal SPL/ASPL looks those parents in the eye, greets them, and engenders trust, and the ASM's keep a good pulse on what's eating at the SM so they can assist him accordingly. Sometimes rules help give parents a vision, sometimes they scare and blind them. I like @Eagledad's home-grown "parental homesickness" diagnosis. It might help folks see where they fit in that big field with their boys' patrol in the far corner from them!

Keep talking guys, I'm teaching trek preparation for UoS this month. I will gratuitously steal any good strategies that you've tried or are trying.

Welcome to the forums @eaglequestions2018! I love listening to youth pow-wow! Sounds to me that the sole beneficiary is the Town Council. Son #1s community park improvement project had the same situation. Lots of stakeholders needed him to pull everyone together. A councilman was his sign off.Likewise, for you, all of those other organizations are volunteers who you will mobilize to complete the project. This is one of those hidden leadership development lessons: set up an efficient, yet appropriate, accountability structure.

Yes, @JustAScoutMom, I knew you were joking, but it made for a convenient contrast, so I ran with it. And @Eagle94-A1, you've got a hot mess more complicated than physical distance. It's no different than the chronically homesick kid. Your boys give it the college try, and they still can't fix it. It's starting to be clear that the scout is using his dad as a crutch to shirk responsibilities. Work's not getting done. The kid's patrol looks like slackers. Everyone's discouraged - including Dad. ... It was about time for the SM to give that "go big or go home" speech. If @krikkitbot decides to rely on SPL/TG leadership development instead of laying down the law, could one of these daddy's boys wind up stuck in a rut? Maybe. Will the boys in all three families dig their heels in? Probably not. Will the SPL/TG gain some "in the trenches" skills? Maybe. Enough to be worth the hassle of the one kid who 4 months from now is still leaving his patrol in the lurch? Probably. But suppose after 6+ camping nights, one boy doesn't change his behavior, and gets the "go big or go home" speech, and the kid opts for home ... he will at least have amassed a few nights camping where some older boys took the time to march across a field and hold open the door for him to the promise of scouting. He and Dad leave with a few skills that they can build on with their family. And, his memories of camp might draw him back in a year or two.

Forgive me if this is redundant to my last post, but I want to emphasize that this is not a hill to die on! You have 3 families where the boys like being with their dads. That's a good thing. None of these boys are older than 12, I'm guessing. That's a good thing too. The majority of your boys must be deciding to tent with a buddy. It sounds like if you told them to choose a site with their patrol on the opposite side of the field, they would. You're in a good place. You just need to find that field. (Otherwise, if like our boys, you find yourself in close woods, pick sites on opposite sides of a stream or a mound. Certain terrains make as-the-crow-flies distances bit unnerving for most folks.) Trying to motivate these scouts to bunk with their buddies via back-channels with other adults or by slighting them with "W3" rhetoric is just a huge waste of precious time you will need getting to know your PLs and the scouts whose parents aren't around when they need a safety net. Does your SPL do bed-checks? Is he in the habit of "doing the rounds" throughout the day and checking on your patrols (including the adults' site)? Little things like that build the trust parents need. If he (or your TG) shows up first thing, greets the dads who've had their scouts tenting with them, and offers to walk their boys over to their respective PLs to start in on something fun (like, maybe, breakfast), it will go a long way in enabling the boy and his parent to trust their new patrol. It could be as simple as, "I need help mustering the PLs. Want to join me?" I'm betting three weekend campouts of this kind of respectful behavior, and these boys will be bunking with their patrols. Bottom line: don''t make this your administrative problem. Make this the boys' leadership development problem.

Home repairs MB ... not a bad thing for boys to learn. It's also a lesson in "The more you own, the more it owns you!"

^^^ sounds fantastic indeed.

Don't sweat this. Let a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience being hiking and camping together with a boy's mates grow gradually. I remember the last time Son #2 came across the field in the wee hours of the morning complaining that he couldn't sleep, andI let him hunker down in my bag with me. Not one of my stupid rules was going to keep me away from that cherished moment. The physical distance has to do with patrol method, not YPT. A 1st-year's patrol is often still his family, not his friends - especially as young as he can cross over these days. When you're making the dad's coffee and the boy pops out of his tent, ask the little fella if he slept well and let him know his new patrol across the field will need him.

I don't wear mine because it's small relative to my frame. Otherwise I think it's a good idea.

Bring batteries. Some captains have solar on their boats. Others don't mind charging devices while the boat is under motor. But, that isn't always the case.

My pet peeve about how all of us approach PORs is the treating some as less time consuming as others. Done properly, each one should consume a portion of every meeting and every activity. There is no way a TG, if a patrol really needs one, can show up once a month and be of much use. He needs to get to know the boys, help them figure out who knows what, figure out what skills they should try given the next activity they are doing, and give constructive feedback to the young PL about how he's doing. That involves a weekly give and take. Waltzing in once a month won't cut it - especially if this patrol is scattered over the summer. Ask your 13 year old SPL what he thinks about this scout holding this POR.

Well, that stinks. Has he held a Position of Responsibility? By held, I mean has he done something every week (month at least) for the good of the troop? If not, drop him from that position (I'm certain your SPL will agree). With SM's approval, I gave this brief lecture to boys in upper ranks: We are not going to care about the patch on your sleeve. He who does the work, holds the position. Don't expect a sign-off from us unless you can tell us (or we clearly can tell ourselves) which of your actions lead to our troop being healthy. It cleared up a lot of unreasonable expectations ... unfortunately I think it might have scared off a scout who was great to have around but having some anxiety issues. So, I've been a little bit more cautions to not deliver those lines to the entire troop. Of course maybe this kid knocked out his 6 months after he earned life two years ago Start making sure that each campout has training requirements (e.g., backpacking trips need an instructional meeting and a shakedown meeting, camporees require strategic planning etc.) Be very specific about how you want him to demonstrate how he knows EDGE. Don't send him to his EBoR if he can't swim, can't tie every knot, stinks at land navigation, etc ... as far as you're concerned a scoutmaster conference is incomplete unless a Life scout - concept, not patch - is in the room with you. Can he dispute that? Yes? But, at least you can come out with your head held high. (And, he gets some law school practice. ) But ... Be optimistic. Maybe he's applied scouting in his youth group, school, relationships, or community. Ask him what he's been doing and if anything about the Oath and Law has made him a better participant in those activities. Help him think about those things as he writes his personal statement. Be friendly. Tell him you want him around because he's a great guy. Express what good qualities in him you'd like your scouts to see on a regular basis. Point out to him that Life Scout looks good on applications too. That pride in your work will shine through most every admissions exam.

What I looked for in a troop for my boys weren't in the BSHB's job descriptions: The SPL greeted me personally. Not just at one meeting, but every meeting and every camp out. I didn't need to be introduced to our SM, he was raising three boys as friendly and courteous as the SPL, and his three daughters were my kids' ages. We crossed paths at father-daughter dances, etc ... I knew most of the other dads from sports/music/school. There was only one public elementary school in the district. Son #1 was an extrovert, which meant lots of sleepovers. I didn't need a "how we do things" lecture from any of them. So, the only thing that needed to be confirmed at a scout meeting/activity was if these boys were any good. And for me that meant would these boys talk to me like older scouts talked to my Mom and Dad, and like I talked to new parents when I was SPL/JASM. Older scouts talked to my sons. Not just at the meeting. They looked Son #1 and his buddies in school and said hi. When he was starting middle school, they were there for him. If there was a bowling night (not a troop activity), they invited him. There was a vision of hiking and camping independently with your mates. Adults/Parents had one side of a field; boys, the other. The SPL would shuttle messages back and forth. On a hike the SPL held the map. Period. If he was confused, he came back to discuss with an SM/ASM. The troop had expanded rapidly, and they never fully got the concept of patrols. But they made up for it with enthusiasm for any and every idea for a camp out. Some scouts were conditioning for Philmont, so they might get dropped off on a harder trail to the campsite. They arrived at camp with smiles on their faces. Now, maybe as a former scout, I wasn't expecting much more. The newsletter from the scribe was a nice touch, but I was happy enough with a couple weeks advance notice for most things. Friendly and Cheerful made up for a multitude of faults. So if some one groused about "not really boy-led", I'd remember those guys' smiles (even when they melted a hole in the dutch oven -- ruining half the cobbler), and chalk up their criticism as armchair quarterbacking.