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@Scouterlockport, the negative effect is that an Eagle-required badge takes up the time that an Eagle-bound scout might use to earn an elective badge. This reduces the diversity of experience that we expect of our youth who earn Eagle. FYI, at one time, First Aid MB was required for 1st class rank. Pushing it back to Eagle necessitated more components of it to be explicit requirements on the trail to 1st class.

@Ojoman, do you know what tipped BSA to change its attitude towards scouts and scouters with a permissive sexual ethic? This clip from our president Titular power is quite real. And the fact that no POTUS has issued an opinion on co-ed scouting, nor has congress made a non-binding resolution in favor of it ... that should speak volumes to your scout. Politicians have gladly done photo-ops with our female scouts, but they have not asserted that co-ed is or is not the way BSA should go. A few years ago, I made a rough calculus (too lazy to dredge the post and link it) that for BSA to shift policy regarding sex-segregation, it would take a couple of thousand girls across the country wanting to be part of BSA troops. The reason BSA began the "family scouting" doublespeak when it realized that there were 10,000 girls knocking at the gate. With all due respect to @InquisitiveScouter's position that local council ineptitude and parental apathy contribute to the problem, I will assert (again): if it really mattered to the bulk of citizens, councils would not be inept. If parents thought really needed the program, they would give a care. So, either elected officials step up and tell our citizens to support co-ed scouting (or every girl working the BSA program), or your scout rallies like-minded girls to tell their parents how much a BSA4G troop really, really matters.

As to "why", DuctTape shared the link to our discussion. Our scouts who have taken it so far enjoyed it. I'll opine no further.

Strangers on the internet… great shoulders to cry on. Tell your CC that it’s time to start the search for your replacement. Before passing the patch, you want to get one or more of these great parents trained … possibly including Wood Badge or Powderhorn. That takes time. Keep working for smiles.

Define “other countries” the largest organizations (India, Indonesia) are segregated. Some of the fastest growing (Pakistan) are unisex. Some of the slowest growing or declining (like ours) are facing negative growth. The most successful associations with blended organization are that way because their royals insisted it be so. Scouts UK has only just recovered its losses in male membership after decades of decline. And that was a result of a concerted effort of their leaders of Girl Guides insisting that everyone play nice. So, why should a girl AOL lack a troop to crossover? Two causes: The president and congress have no interest in making BSA and GS/USA “play nice” by (at the very least) sharing participation in Jamboree. The scout failed to recruit her friends (or enemies) and a trio of caring adults. It is indeed a serious issue but as far as I can tell it’s not ours to solve until we are demanded to do so by 1) our youth or 2) our elected officials.

Or, this painting might have have caught his attention at one time.

I’ll should wait for part 2. But what you’ve recounted so far emphasizes the importance of two-deep leadership and no one-on-one contact, and the difficulty ensuring it every minute of 240 hours of summer camp.

Good luck. I’ve worked with committees faced with these kinds of decisions where every solution sounds like a bad one.

I’ve known scouts who finished their Eagle advancement while in juvenile detention. So I’m quick to say anything’s possible. But … When a seasoned scouter has his doubts, it’s time to ask hard questions. What will a Lone Scout program offer the scout that he may not already have via his treatment program? Are you sure nobody in your council is trying a scouting program for kids with behavior disorders? There’s no boiler-plate. So, you need to find the scouters in your council who may handle a program specifically for this. This is one of those situations where a note to your SE might actually be productive.

All minus most equals some of our scouts carrying for the rest of us. For a few years, Buttercup was the troop song. And no, it was not great. Then one choir boy decided to take the lead by opening with that guttural “Why do you …” just like on the record. All of summer would be up and dancing at evening campfire. The Good Book says “Make a joyful noise …” no mention of tonality.

I can’t even believe I’m about to say this … … make peace with the electronics. The boys in my troop become singing fools when they start streaming old-school pop tunes. I constantly remind them that I loath whatever the tech name is for their pathetic excuse for a boom box, but I’ll abide it as long as I hear their voices rise above in passable melody.

I like how you are thinking. Don’t send 1st and 2nd year scouts on HA’s. Really and truly, you want your HA contingent to have first class skills and to be practicing them throughout the year. That includes teaching them to 1st years at summer camp. In fact younger scouts see a good role model as older scouts prepare for HA. (E.g. you all are basically in the one-hike-a-month club until you go to Philmont.) So, the ideal solution is that your “elite 8” attend summer camp as well as the HA. Is there anything getting in the way of you doing that?

Your mental gymnastics could come back to bite … Philmont trek is a series of overnights interrupted by hikes with full packs. Seabase sailing adventures is a series of overnights interrupted by rolling up your bunk, stowing it in the hold, and snorkeling reefs or touring islands. We could say the same for extended adventures with dog sledding, cross country skiing, or circus caravans. Look, let’s clear all of the machinations off the table and do what this forum prattles on incessantly about doing. Be boy led. Have the scout read the requirements, look at his camping log, and ask him what he thinks should be decided.

Asked and answered here: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/06/24/ask-expert-isnt-camping-night-camping-mb/ Wade through the myriad comments, if you dare.

I always believed the philosophy was to provide scout's fellows a sufficient amount of overnights with the troop on which to judge the candidate's merits. More nights throughout the year = more data points. Since the canoe trip was a troop excursion and not some big-ticket provisional HA, it would mean the lad's character was manifest to the rest of your scouts on that trip. If he was a saint to scouts on land where you all were watching, but a jerk in his boat every time you adults were around the bend, he won't get elected.* If your boys are like mine, word gets around if one scout made the others' overnights miserable. So, we're starting at different points but reaching the same conclusion. Lacking any other reservation on your part, count the nights. *A rose by any other name ...

If the registrar make this a "hang-up", it's the fault of adults. The scout's application would not be rejected. An appeal to National would come down in favor of the scout. Again, this is where getting to know your advancement chair comes in handy.

What is the "overall budget of the organization" when the organization offloads stewardship of it's resources (meeting space, equipment, and a boatload of management onto COs and volunteers? If council-owned troops become increasingly popular, there will be budgets will increase and the SE's pay as a percentage of that budget will decrease, even if actually salary remains constant. SE's get compensated well when a lot of other people do work for the council for little or nothing.

Our SM was unavailable, so Friday I conferenced and signed the Eagle App for a scout whose birthday was yesterday. (Yes, he registered to vote.) I was in communication with the SM and other ASM's throughout. Keep the BS out of the BSA. Check in with your district/council advancement chair so that your current arrangement is well understood by all.

A scouter can be taught! @curious_scouter, Regarding that sanity check, let me hand down what my advisor told me when I was an Advisor dealing with all manner of cross-talk regarding how to do my job, and I asked, "Am I right, or am I crazy." He said, "Oh, you may very well be crazy, but you are certainly right!" If I were you, I'd get the "cooler boys" a patrol of two totem for their flag. What's going to happen if that pair are the only boys from their patrol who show up on activities ready to scout at full tilt and give other patrols a run for their money? Other scouts as nutty as them will want to be in their patrol. Bottom line, don't break up patrols for your convenience. Let the scouts tell you and the SPL if they want to adjust their members. It can be because of attendance issues like the one that concerns you, or it could be because a couple of scouts in a patrol are like oil and water, or because of youth protection requirements. Ask the SPL to evaluate if it's a problem, invite him and the PLC to resolve it. They may need options, or they may already have their minds made up on what would be best. They just need the freedom to think that through.

So ... here's how to rub the other way. Invite big donors to your program. That makes the SE pay very close attention to you. If a donor is posting on his/her media page about the attendance of a scouting event that you programmed, I assure you that that program will get funding. For any of you who are feeling an "ick" factor because you're "in it for the boys", please understand that the entire USA movement is founded by businessmen who understood cash flow far better than they understood youth development. Design a program that a businessman sees as a worthy investment, and you'll find more support for it than you may need or even want. Then you let your pro's do what they do best -- being a liaison who primes the pump for funding program and and solves many of your paperwork/legal challenges, justifying their salaries in the process.

Oh, how cute. Thinking that executives of organizations under collapse would get reduced pay. On the contrary, expect executive salaries to increase as councils merge and more demands will be placed on a professional who could find better compensation doing less for more in the private sector.

There you go reminding us of a scouting-pro's-dozen annual ideas that do nothing to motivate more growth -- be it personal or numeric.

How about a committee lead by SPLs to review adults before earning their "trained" patch?

@InquisitiveScouter and @fred8033 are working sides of the same coin ... that of mistrust. Once upon a time (those of you who are older than me may snicker now) before districts were the size of councils: counselor lists were a district function, camps were district camps, it cost real money to communicate out of your area code, and SM's knew councilors quite well. All of the verbal gymnastics in the GTA boil down to "a how to" when SM's or MC's don't trust MBC's. However, we need to understand that this is a truly tragic situation. Not because it happens, but because we've once again lost the skill of being plain-spoken. Take this phrase ... Might as well tell the scout you don't think he's trustworthy to read requirements and act accordingly. Might as well tell scoutmasters that you don't think they are trustworthy to deliver a scouting program. I like Fred's idea about more nights and less minutiae, but the bitter truth is that as long advancement has to be completed within 7 years or less, someone is going to find the high speed, low drag method of executing whatever requirements we conjure. I'd rather tell a scout and scouter that 60 years ago National instituted an ageist policy regarding advancement, MBs evolved to be more like school and less like adventure. The complexity of advancement is the fault of neither scout or scouter. So, rather than circling that GTA drain, ask what your troop can do to bridge the gap between what an MBC actually taught and what we actually should have learned from the MB? Instead of fretting over who skates by and who doesn't -- making BoRs dreadful things in the process -- let's make advancement scouting again.

I've found that, for me and my council, retaking YPT about now keeps peace with all of the bean-counters. (It also falls between mandatory work online retraining and open enrollment. So, all I have to do is stop watching war footage, and I'm golden.) Did the test last night and aiming for the other 3 modules tonight. I guess I could have done the whole thing but taking a power drill to a pumpkin was way too much fun.