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My degrees of separation from the news dropped to one this weekend, and I went to my doctor's funeral today. There was an unusually large number of finely dressed passengers on the bus. Anyway, the impromptu banner under which the city united in response to this evil was designed by an Eagle scout and former staff. From our council's FB Page: News story here: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2018/10/28/Stronger-Than-Hate-logo-creator-Tim-Hindes-Tree-of-Life-Pittsburgh/stories/201810280204 I'm really hoping that the Flag Foundation will add this to the collection.

Thanks in advance for all of your service to the youth! Courses an ASM your age should take: Powderhorn Kodiak and/or Kodiak course directors course Crew officer training and the specialty award of your choice Seascout quartermaster BSA Guard Any young adult instruction your religion offers. Any volunteer first responder/search and rescue training that your community offers Range safety officer training Next-level training on whatever your favorite merit badge was So the next time your fellow adults harp on Woodbadge, tell them that you have a list of other courses that are taking priority. (You might not tell them that you're getting that list from a stranger on the Internet.)

How frequently to do big-ticket scouting really depends on the boys, their resources, and their cohesiveness. However, not every high adventure has to come with a heavy price tag. It's nice to alternate expensive years with moderate cost years. After these scouts come back from Philmont, they should be better prepared to build their own adventures.

All of these other suggestions have so much going for them, that these might seem trivial, but if your scouts haven't done them, they might bite on these backdoor challenges: bike to Cumberland Gap, then on to Pittsburgh raft the Potomac bike around a Great Lake hike the Standing Stone trail in PA kayak in Pamlico Seabase

Thanks @Eagle1993, I can come off as an advancement hawk. Probably explains why no scout wanted to earn rank through my crew.

If I were SM (and maybe this is why I never was), I would send a letter to the SE asking that the AoL of these Webelos be denied because they did not camp with the troop and therefore did not complete the requirements as written. I'd cc the parents.

You know what I find missing in this topic's title? We never talk roses and thorns without our bud (what we're looking forward to). Don't let go of that bud, WM! Lots of good will come of your ticket even if the results wind up a little less polished than you'd like! You got this!

@Vanhall21, welcome to the forums. You will find that the biggest challenge of scouting, most days, is working wih other adults. Here's an official link to the average pack's organization chart: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/how-cub-scouting-is-organized/ The positions with broader responsibilities are down the page. Do you know who's in each of those positions? At the end of the day, your best shot at solving problems like this is by talking to the adults who you'd like to correct over a cup of coffee.

@Summitdog, I can't recall if I welcomed you to the forums and thanked you in advance for all that you'll do for our youth. So, pardon my redundancy: welcome and thanks! If you're new, I would hold off on taking WB. It really works best after you've had a few years applying the basic training you needed for your position. So the replies to your topic may be worth reading sometime down the road. What it offers (in no particular order): Networking: you spend a lot of time with other scouters. Two full weekends working on anything pulls folks together. Plus, there's time between weekends coordinating with your patrol. Perspective: you start the course as a den, then ultimately a patrol, of scouts. Thought-provoking exercises: these can have a positive or negative impact. Motivation: after a couple of years as a scouter, you get "ideas" of what you'd like to really contribute to the unit in which you serve. The course helps you break those ideas down into five measurable goals (a.k.a., your ticket) and assigns you 18 months to complete them. As you can tell from other comments, it can have mixed results -- on both course attendees and non-attendees!

@glad2badad, welcome to the forums where (unlike Bryan's site) moderators are quick to clear replies. Hope you find us helpful.

I never hesitate to run things like this by seasoned scouting pros. They've been more help than harm. And those interactions inform my opinion to this day. This would be especially true if the pro had more information on this scout or other complaints about my troop. But even if nothing specific to the scouts in question, he/she should have experience with a wide array of incidents. That would help me put things in perspective. As far as trusting such a (now-ex) SPL who, after suspension, decides he wants to be a scout - for real this time: I would not trust him to tent with a scout of lesser rank or age. I would also be very cautious about him bunking with much older scouts who know of the incident because they might in their indignation feel justified in bullying him. The scout has made a real mess for himself.

Welcome to the forums! FWIW, scouting really becomes fun as boys learn to earn MBs outside of summer camp. However, parents should be prepared to accept the reality that a boy might just not be motivated to earn a particular badge. Son #2 had partially completed Swimming his first year at camp, and held on to that partial for six years . He became a relatively good swimmer (a necessity in our family). Lots of willing instructors just a phone call away, plus five summer camps ... I was there to suggest "How about walking down to the acquatics area and knocking off those last few reqs?" Every year, the partial came back untouched! Really, I should frame the thing, right beside his Eagle medal. So, lead the horse to water, but be prepared if he passes on drinking it!

Fine point: linked troops share the same number. So ... /Troop100/Boys and ... /Troop100/Girls?

@WisconsinMomma, this is where it gets really complicated. I consider a 17 year old to be more "locked in" than a 13 year old. This is partly from Jr. High experience (mine, then mine relived again with my kids, then with my scouts ...) and partly from literature. If you have the misfortune of meeting a sexually aggressive 13 year old, there is an opportunity that negative reinforcement will correct the behavior. A boy like this can "flip" from being a terror to being the staunchest defender of the weak. I believe, for both men and women, that window closes between ages 14-15, and suddenly suspensions and expulsions become things to brag about. Therefore, in a developmental context, for every strategy (expel, suspend, remove privileges, send to training, etc ...), we have to reflect on a couple of questions about how to best protect youth from similar incidents: Can we turn the wayward youth from opponent to ally? How many others will be harmed if we fail? How many others will be protected if we succeed? How will we be able to tell failure from success? Needless to say, those answers are more obvious for some situations than others. Because I've seen so many aggressors turn defender, kids like the SPL are not who keep me awake at night. It's the kids who fail to call fools on their folly that worry me the most. A suspension might make onlookers reflect a little, but it won't give them the courage they need for the next time. They'll have to dig deeper for that. If they keep up the pattern of blending into the wallpaper, we're all lost.

'Skip, I don't think you're in a much different situation on your side of the pond. Expulsion (instead of suspension) could be on the table but for one reality: as much as I admire the MeToo movement for shining a light into the dark spaces of our liberated culture, the fact remains that our youth face overwhelming encouragement from multiple medial outlets to physically prey on the weak. In our society, this allows aggressive male behavior to become normative. By way of example, during one coffee break a week, I help chaperon some youth (mostly high school seniors, very mixed race). For this group, I'm usually just in fly-on-the-wall mode. They had a special guest who volunteers for the local Action Against Rape organization. She challenged them with a few scenarios and asked them to identify them as flirting, harassment, or sexual harassment. One scenario really divided them: You are told, "Let's kiss, or we won't kick it together anymore." (Slang note: at least in our inner city "kick it together", an erstwhile gang phrase, is replacing "go steady" in defining couples who are being exclusive.) All of the young women, and half of the young men identified that as sexual harassment, the other half boys were eventually won over ... except for one young man, who just wasn't buying the argument that a phrase like that was any kind of threat. What made it interesting was the young lady next to him was really upset that he wasn't getting it. (Of course, she was the kid who happened to be helping draft state legislation on the topic. ) I finally spoke up and explained to him that the statement reduced physical intimacy to a transaction, and that could threaten any person who comes to count on that close relationship. He bought that, sort of, and at least it diffused the fireworks by helping everyone accept why couples with an equal sense of power might be less intimidated by an attempt to link intimacy and standing in a relationship while other couples would find such a linkage as corrosive and demeaning. After the talk, I went up to the young man and told him to keep asking tough questions. I think he will. But, think about these youth, five years younger and twice as impulsive and very little chance that they recognize how they are taking advantage of power dynamics. A suspension gives them, even the instigator, a chance to think, maybe for the first time, "Do I really want to be a scout?" When I was bullied (elementary school), Momma told the guys they weren't allowed around the house until they could be gentlemen. She then told me to "Get big." Eventually, we all came around. I learned to stand up for myself. They learned to be kinder. Many guys just need a stern wake-up call. Obviously, if this kid was suspended or expelled from other activities for the same thing, then yes, expulsion should be on the table.

True. But ... Athletic trainers aren't that hard to come by. I had an uncle who was boxing at the local gym well into his 80s. Personally, my problem is ego. I don't like spending time and money getting coached.

A timely post from Bryan.

What's with people thinking they can take unit leaders for granted? Oh well, I'll miss the profile pic.

@MattR, of course I'm making assumptions. If I said "I'm sure you all tried to squelch this before, but you've been dealt a hand of conduct disordered kids." I'd be making assumptions. That doesn't change the challenge before us. It's twofold: 1) understand the role adults have played in setting this up and 2) set the proper bar for the youth. I've had the privilege of associate advisors and ASM's who would correct me. I've also had folks who swept things under the rug behind my back because they knew I'd run the problem up the chain -- not out of a sense of obligation, but because generally when I did that, I've gotten helpful advice from seasoned professionals. Those folks basically loaded up a powder keg. So, I'm now a strong proponent of putting all cards on the table and calling spades spades. When there were disciplinary issues at camps, I had no problem telling the SM or aggrieved staff, "I have my keys here. (To drive the wayward scout home that hour, if desired.)" I'm not accusing this new scoutmaster of being too lax. I am just saying that part of this is taking an honest look at the past, and if leaders can recall instances that set the tone, their best strategy is to own up to it to the boys.

I wear my WB neckerchief, mainly because it's the only one that fits well. But, it has made a couple scouters uneasy until they realize that I'm all in for the boys.

I'm sorry, it could be I misread. Were you not ASM for two years? And did you not see bullying incidents at that time? How did you handle them? Might your PLC be falling in line with the SPL because they were imitating the adults they knew? Now I could be dead wrong. And for the past three years you showed up at every committee meeting demanding a heavier hand against abusive scouts ... possibly even calmly telling those scouts themselves what you were demanding. I'm not gonna waste time filling in blanks. The results won't satisfy you. And how highly strangers on the Internet think about your character doesn't mean a hill of beans if the boys don't believe it. None of that changes what should be done. You could play "new sheriff in town" or you could own all you all's past of letting things slide. You picked up the patch. You own it. Then you tell everyone, "We're scouts. We're better than this. And, starting now, here's how we'll prove it. ..." Bottom line: insist the committee give these boys time away from the troop to decide if they really want to be scouts. They might compromise, but so what? Even if they override your decision, any other victim in your troop will know you're on their side.

@EagleForever, welcome to the forums. If it's any consolation, when I came back with Son #1 there were these kids in Exploring shirts calling themselves venturers!

If you aren't worried about time, you can maximize your glide time off of each flip turn to the point you only need a few strokes to the end of the lane. (I had a lot of pool time in phys Ed class to figure this stuff out -- a couple of years after I swam my first mile.) But that's not very sporting. That's just what we need, one more adjective to ward off the one in ten thousand slackers who would try to pass off 17 100 yard swims as a mile. As anyone here heard of a scout pulling such shenanigans?

All of the above, plus the SMs spouse should be held in very high esteem.

@Bside, welcome to the forums and thanks in advance for all you do for the boys. I could second guess that you let past acts of bullying go unchecked. But, that's water over the dam. Reflect on it, and if you think by being a little severe earlier might have prevented this, you'll owe this scout an apology. Talk to your committee chair and charter org rep, but I think a three month suspension from meetings and activities is warranted for the complicit scouts. Their return should be based on their understanding of BSA's and your policy on bullying. They should not be given positions of responsibility until after they show they can comport themselves in a scout-like manner on he next activity in which they participate. And even then, the assigning of PoRs will be at the discretion of the PLC who replaces them during the next three months. It's a tough row to hoe. You risk losing these scouts. But it seems like you can't afford to do otherwise.