ProScouter06

New Cub Scout uniform is out! New CS uniform looks good to me!

National scouting museum ☝️ Here’s a great episode done by the national scouting museum about the history of the jac-shirt. He even references the guidelines and the flexibility of those guidelines for what it’s worth.

This is awesome! Well done! Duane was great to work with!

Here’s a listing for the historic reproduction. Historic BSA uniform I recently worked with the seller and he was great. Check it out!

@MikeS72 yes the website is out of date. They are currently taking orders as of January 1, 2022.

Hi all, and happy new year. recently I’ve been getting back into collecting of scouting memorabilia. My time out of the scouting profession has been a good refresh to look back on my experiences with fresh eyes. Especially as I introduce my son to scouting as his lion den leader. That said, I’ve come across this neat item that is being made as a reproduction of this timeless classic scouter dress uniform from 1966. I’m looking into having one made through battle dress unlimited. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/presale-centennial-ii-scouter-service-2780002888 Has anyone ordered one or seen any worn? I had a volunteer in my first council that wore one, it was neat. if you’re interested in this, contact Duane at Battledress@hotmail.com

Update, picked up a new shirt in small, and can confirm it does run small! Replaced with a Meduim for a better fit. Seems to be a good material, hopefully will last for many years as I begin the scout trail with my Lion!

Yes, you're right, it does have a place in our society, and is enjoyed by a small segment in proportion to the population; however with that kind of perspective toward Scouting then we can never become the best program for youth that we strive to be. I rest my case on why the BSA, a non-profit among many others, employees thousands of individuals to promote and share the positive story that Scouting can tell. The incredible impact it has had on countless lives, and the necessity of spreading and growing the movement to every child.

That is very true. IMO it's cultural. Always has been. We could probably start a new thread on this topic alone. Scouting, since it's begining and through the 50s and 60's at its peak, were as American as apple pie. It celebrated Americanism, patriotism, and our countries history and origin. It offered an escape for every class of youth to explore, to experience adventure outside of their homes, towns, and cities. Teaching life skills to prepare them for service to their community, nation and world. That cultural phenomenon has eroded for over 110 years. Look where we are today. We are in a world that in many ways is a polar opposite of when the BSA started and grew. We are over-connected today. Kids have endless opportunities to connect, and explore different worlds, sports, gaming, social media etc... Kids are no longer taught patriotisim in schools, they are taught activisim. Folks, we are in a brave new world, and Scouting is considered a relic to many. Just look at the attacks over the decades of the BSA (for right or wrong, I'm not taking a side either way here) Perosnally I, and I am sure most in the community value Scouting and believe in it's impact on youth. Although to others the BSA may seem like a relic and unpopular, I would argue it is needed today more than ever before. That's why we must endure, and find ways to work together to sustain and grow despite some of our apparent differences as it relates to organizational structure as we have discussed in this thread. We must, as others have alluded to, find a way forward so more kids can beneift from what we know is the best youth program around.

This is a good point. Not to mention, if you're in a Troop, as a scout, and as parents, there is much higher buy-in to the program to be able to suffer through virtual programming as so many have been forced in to. Cub Scouts on the other hand requires social interaction. Not to say Scouts, BSA does not, however, those kids have adjusted for lack of a better word to the vitural world. There is no doubt that this past fall would result in a massive membership loss in Cub Scouting, and with recruiting. It's a tragedy that will be felt for the next few years. Since I know the Scouting world, I will be joining this flal with my son as a Lion. Ideally we are back to gateherings by then. If not, it will be an uphill battle convincing parents to pay for and participate in an online program.

The program fee I would imagine also covers the unseen, beyond events. For example administrative costs at the council office, facilities, properties etc. The overhead to mainatin camp properties, insurance, taxes etc are some of those unseen costs assocaited with the program. Most councils have a registrar that must process scout applications, that's an unseen adminsitrative cost. Staff time supporting and promoting scouting locally in the community etc. Again I can only speak for the experience I've had in mutlple councils. For example in the council where I live, it is free to tent camp on the camp properties. That is a nice beneift, value added for our units. However there are still costs related to those properties. Other councils may not be in a position to show the value-added. If so it becomes diffuclt to see the value for the program fee.

Yes, all valid points. Development folks need to tailor their messaging to the right audience so that the philanthopic support is not lost in lieu of the program fees. You're correct that each group must see the value in what they are either buying, or supporting. That will boil down to proper stewardship of gifts, and proper engagement opportunities for members as part of their program fee.

Next fall, (considering the BSA survives the bankruptcy , which I do believe it will) I'll be signing up with my son for his first year of Scouting! To say I'm excited about sharing this program with him would be an understatement! Just looked online and see there's a new uniform shirt. https://www.scoutshop.org/new-uniforms/leaders/scouts-bsa-men-s-uniform-short-sleeve-shirt-khaki-s-4x.html Does anyone have this, any reviews? I have a couple of centennial uniforms that I remember buying back in '08 at the BSA All Hands conference in Nashville. They served me well for years and still may. However, I will probably upgade to be more current. Thanks

UNREAL. Herein lies some of the root of the animosity we've referenced. No wonder people are turned off by FOS when the SE makes that kind of salary. I'm sure the field staff are paid under the median ... Leading to turnover, which leads to another can of worms for everyone.

Agreed. To me that is why the program fee will hopefuly offset costs. I can only reference my own experience. In the councils I worked we only charged an overhead fee on program events, camporees, day events etc. Training was and should be 100% no charge IMO. Higher, more elevated trainings like wood badge does need to have a fee considering all the food, and supplies needed. And National also charges for some of their trianings, I never had any experience with those though. They seem like good opportunites for those that wish to make that investment. My guess is if training has a cost realted to it, I'm wondering if that council is operating properly. Do they not have another source of revenue?

Let me clairfy this. In my almost ten year career I never had to tell anyone how to "run" anything. In almost all cases I was notified of a probelm that needed a solution, which I would then work with my district volunteers to sove. For example, a leader that quits and the unit or COR asked for support. Or a situation where alcohol was being consumed by adults at a scouting activity. That is when I would have to try to remedy a situation. For me, and I woukld assume most staff, as long as the guide to safe scouting was being followed, we never told anyone how to run a program. We offered assitance and trianing when asked.

@InquisitiveScouterI'm not sure how to reply to specific quotes, so I'm replying to your quotes removed from the body specifically. Revenue is necessary to operate the council. Every event must make some money in order to operate the council. We usually had a 20% overhead fee. Think about the costs that are unseen. Staff time, facility usage etc... If not, where would the funds come from? Fundraising does not cover it all. I was so glad to hear that local councils are now charging program fees rather than investing in more FOS. The time and effort for FOS spent on by staff is unreal compared to the return. I like the idea of the program fee. However as a current higher ed fundraiser, councils cannot lose philanthropic support. They will need a new game plan to solict, cultivate and steward their donors. The good news is, the fundraisning program can become more targeted, aimed at those who have a high inclination to give rather than the current FOS strategy which was seen by some folks as begging. Agreed about SE's. Those salaires need to be brought in check. Let's face it, in many areas, Scouting is a small non-profit often struggling to survive and keep the the lights on. When the SE makes $150k it's a bit hard to justify IMO.

Yes, I've commented on other posts with a smiliar assessment. The jobs need to change and become more service oriented, and targeted. Many councils are making these changes, hiring unit service support people, development people, program people etc... DE's being a jack of all trades is a nice concept, very popular among non-profits, but it's not sustianable. We always talked about how when you buy a washing machine from a salesperson, that same person does not come to fix it when it's broken. I always thought that wa sa good analogy for what we need in Scouting. As for overstepping, of course that's an area that ideally could be better through proper profesional development. I would never tell a volunteer how to run their unit, unless they were offering a poor product. But I would try to work within our system, through volunteers to help them succeed. In some situations, you have to pay staff to run units, in urban areas for example. My opinion was that we were working with a very antiquated system, that needed a refresh. As I said, some are making progress, I'm sure not everywhere. With National now in flux I would not expect anything ground breaking, but then again, they may be forced to create a more sustainable staff structure. We will see. (Apologies for the typos!)

Well said. Need the right, talented people for the right jobs on all levels. BSA is not alone, many non-profits face the same challenegs.

Interesting tone to this thread. Certainly sounds like everyone’s experience has been a mixed bag as it relates to the volunteer/professional relationship. Too bad since we all wear the same uniform and should all be focused on the same thing, a quality program for youth. When we’re all working toward that goal in our respective positions from the scoutmaster to the committee member, from the DE to the den leader and from the camp cook to the cub master. No ones perfect, there are great examples of each of these people and bad examples too. Of course if you’re jaded, you’ve been poisoned with implicit bias that will only seep out to effect others, right? As a former professional, I can remember the bias I felt from many volunteers. It was as if I had done something wrong for choosing to work for the scouts. To me, as a young working professional this left a lasting impression that has stayed with me as I ventured into new careers. It taught me hard lessons about people and what kind of treatment to expect, in work and in life. On the other hand, I also remember the kindness shown to me by the volunteers I worked with. Lifelong friendships were formed. People I still exchange Christmas cards with. By some volunteers I was shown incredible kindness that I’ll never forget. Bringing this back to the discussion. The fact of the matter is that, in reality, the DE, the staff, the organization is necessary to be sustainable and to grow. The BSA learned this many years ago. Would it be great if we didn’t need the professional organization and could rely on volunteers? Of course. But that’s not the reality whether we like it or not. We struggled ten years ago trying to find more volunteers, quality volunteers. I’d imagine it’s the same if it harder in today’s atmosphere. Two examples come to mind that I experienced that speaks to the need of professionals. 1) I walk into a cub scout rally night to visit, offer help, greet new families etc. the cub master whom I did not know well walked up to me upset about something I cannot remember what, and she quit. The event was about to start and there were no other leaders present besides some den leaders. I was relatively new to the district and the community. It was terrible. But I couldn’t let everyone’s first experience with scouting be an angry cub master who walked out. So I did the best I could. Led the kids in a few fun scout songs. Shared a bit about what scouting was all about and we got into questions/answers and the night was salvaged. The attendees did not notice any problem. Of course now we had a lack of kids with no cub master. Story for another day. The point is who on earth would want to handle that, with a smile if it weren’t their job? 2) This speaks to the argument that commissioners can and do all the things the DE does. I had a commissioner attend a pack meeting. Older gentleman, nice guy but rough around the edges. Well, he yelled at some cub scouts for not saluting properly during a flag ceremony. Kids quit and I had to deal with the fall out. The commissioner didn’t not lose his role, since we needed more volunteers not less. He wasn’t exactly a great brand ambassador. Without accountability he kept volunteering. Instead of contempt, or distrust, we should be thankful there are people willing to work in a non profit, underpaid, and overworked for the benefit of an organization we all believe in that will impact the lives of our children.

Hello Scouters, I'm looking to connect with any Scouters who may also be car enthusiasts that live in and around Durham, North Carolina. Please send me a PM if you fit the description, or know someone who does! Thanks!

It’s certainly the way our culture is moving. When scouting began we were a society that produced and built, now we’re one that consumes at a level unknown to history. Scouting was a way to connect and associate with others. Now we’re all connected, all the time whether we like it or not. The bright side in my opinion is that I believe people will began yearning to disconnect eventually we’re already seeing it. The question is will scouting meet their needs? It’s really not a good situation, but if the BSA can come out of this I think they will take a hard look at the overall operations of scouting at a national and local level. Councils are already merging and streamlining. Staff need to become more specialized to support our needs. The days of the DE doing it all is over. We need highly specialized staff to support membership, program and revenue generation. of course that won’t solve the volunteerism concern. My only thought there is we need the program, especially Cubs to be so easy to deliver for new volunteers and parents. I haven’t been involved since I left the profession but what I’ve seen from the sidelines, scout book, den in a box, it seems as if we’re moving in that direction. I’m praying scouting will be around next fall. My son will be eligible to be a lion and I’ll volunteer to be his leader. Scouting at its core still is the only program that offers parents the chance to grow up with their kids. We need that message to be made clearly, loud and often to all prospective members in ever community across the country.

Very well said, and great points. When I worked for the scouts we discussed this often. I left right around 2015 but we could all see what was happening to the current model and how unsustainable it is. It’s a shame that that is the reality. However in order to survive we must adapt without losing our core values.

I’m not sure I’d agree that council execs have always wanted to have direct control of units... I worked for the BSA professionally for almost a decade and never once heard this sentiment across the four states I worked or at any regional or national gathering. I will say that we often wished that units could offer more consistency in quality, but that never meant we wanted control. I think there’s a difference.

As a former pro myself, thankfully in my years I never received the urgent late night calls however did receive the ‘non real issue’ early 5am call on my cell. I cringe remembering those days. I think the call was about a patch...!