powdersons

For those of you who thought I was advocating trying to convert Scouts to "my religion" let me try again. My comments were directed to adults and intended for adults. The point I was trying to make was that I have the constitutional right to speak of god and religion. As I said in my post, say stop and I will stop because I respect your right to have and practice beliefs different from mine. Unfortunately, for many atheists any mention of god or religion is argued to be a violation their right not to believe. It seems they can only exercise their rights if the rest of do things their way and refrain from exercising our rights. I have experience of Muslims at day camp. They stepped aside at their required prayer time and exercised their religion. They did not demand that the non-Muslims stop what they were doing and join them. They did not even ask that we stop the activities so that they did not miss any part of the program. At Camporees the LDS units did not demand that the Camporee end for everyone on Saturday evening because they do not camp on Sundays. I have never had a Jewish or Muslim Scout or Scouter ask that all menus conform to their requirements only that food they can eat be included. If the atheists Scout or Scouter would stand (or even sit) silently and allow the rest of us to practice our religious beliefs their argument to allowed membership would be much stronger. That is how one becomes an atheist Eagle Scout, isn't it? (This message has been edited by powdersons)

Does the BSA discriminate? Yes. Is it a good thing? Yes. As simply as I can put it I respect your right not to believe and once you tell me you have no interest in hearing my reasons why you are wrong I will leave you alone and never mention it again. But, I have the right to believe and you need to respect my right to believe, which includes, in my Christian beleif at least, an obligation to try to show you that you are wrong. I also have the right to raise my children according to what I believe is right. I believe that believing in God is right. BSA is one of the only places where I am assured that those who will be around by children believe the same way and will show this by deed and example. If athiest were allowed in BSA then all religion would have to be removed from the program. Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt that you are willing to become a leader and sit through Scouts' Own and prayers at meetings, etc., just because those who believe in God want to do these things. My sons are in Scouts because Scouts do these things. The religious aspect of Scouting is as important as the non-religious aspects. What makes Scouting so special is that the religious and non-religious are done together.(This message has been edited by powdersons)

Our troop has decided to do a canoe trip in April. We are leaning toward the Colorado somewhere between Hoover Dam and Yuma. I would appreciate hearing where others have gone in the last couple of years and whether you would do it again. I would also be interested in any other highly recommended rivers in California.