bear dad

have to agree with "j" on this somewhat, if book say know and recite they should. I fine it kinda hard to be able to figure out what it clearly means from a stand point? What does know it mean? IF you know it, why can't you recite it then? Look at this way, in school teachers tell students to know something for a test, when test day comes, students tell teachers they know material, but when it come time to tell what the answer is as in ( a oral ) test or whatever? they can not.Does teacher give them a passing grade for "knowing"? Think national should be clearer on this, it is hard to tell if someone knows, if you have no guide lines to be able to tell?

Thanks for the comments. I am looking forward to the experience, I am hoping to gain more understanding in the scout program which inturn hopefully will make me a better leader. Some the training I have recieved is sorry to say, not very good. I not sure if that has to do with the trainer or district resources or?? Looking at this as the elite in training so far, but as time goes on, some the best training is by experience. Thanks

Well, looks like I am finally going to woodbadge this fall. Heard lots of great things from people about it. Sure I will good time and will try to soak in all the related info given. Personally think this help me be a better leader for my den and pack. Wish me luck.

Thanks for the feedback, got a ideal for what I needed.As to what type of equpiment using, we are going to try at 1 of our councils sites, and if we use a certain spot they have fire pits, about 7-10ft long with screens we could throw foil on top and crank some food out. Other than that we have bbq grills,some camp stoves that we can take. I have never really use a "Coleman type stove" although have 4, guess I get it out a try some things in the back yard. We had some one donate a ton of hot dogs which will cover a part of lunch for us , chips, etc.. Roughly we are figuring on about 40 people,about 15-17 adults rest kids. I am trying to keep in cheap as possible for the pack.Burgers might be a option, but if we can get the hamburger cheap enough we might go with soft tacos as we get a lot tacos out of a 10lbs of meat. Trying to figure on about $10 a family which sounds like not enough, I have others tell me they charge $15, but what type of food did have, how many cooks, etcc... We have about 14 different families, some just 2 people some with 5, think the average is 4. I going pass out a sign up sheet for ages and how many and go from there. Thanks

Hi, we are trying to plan for our pack camp out and would like to get a few ideals on the easiest, cheapest way to feed about 40-50 people if all show up? Let me say that cost will some what a factor as pack will spend some, and probaly families will have a small cost aswell. We don't have enough funds within our pack, for the pack to flip the bill for this all together. Someone has donated a bunch of hot dogs for trip as it was on sale and they could buy a lot fairly cheaply to help feed the packs.Which the pack could he other stuff, chips, etc. which could take of 1 meal. Need to mentioned it would a friday nite thru sunday after noon trip. families would have to eat before they left friday, probaly have a snack that night. For the pure ease of cooking for all people,and everyone trying to get to eat close to same time, would something like tacos, which could be made fairly cheap be a way? Just wanted to get a ideal of what others have done in past.

Funny thing happened the other night at our PWD, a young man who is a older brother of a boy in my den approached me and ask me I could use some help with the dens and want's to be a asst dl. He is over 18, but not 21 yet some I said according to what I know you can be a ASST DL, and said a very happy YES to him! He has already asked me about getting uniforms, shirts, said I happen to have one for him, heck in 10 minutes he has shown more interest some of the parents all year. He is a former scout so maybe some of the good times he had is coming back to him and he can give that to others. Yes he will have YP in place! Gunny2862 can you elaborate on your post, think know what you mean, in case I don't please tell me breifly, thanks

thanks for the replies. think parents don't really get it sometimes. we are having our first pwd tonight, despite several times of offering folks some help if they needed, everyone said they was okay. I did come across a mom who I pesronally offered to help and was turn down, she finally said yes. told her to meet me at my house at certain time and she agreed, I put off things to help them out, came home got tools out and she never showed, no call . callled her and asked if she was still coming and she no they got it handled.wonder why leaders get burned out, this was a common curosity to call me and let me know. on another note think the lack of Quality training for leaders from councils, etc.. make a new dl feeling overwelmed at times not wanting to stick with it, especially if they have desire for it.

Howdy,Let me first start off by saying that being in cub scouts with my son has been fun so far.Being a DL is little eye opening exeperince.We have all heard the old saying "10 percent of the people do 100 percent of the work" In our packs case that so true. We are a fairly new pack less than a year, we are still going thru growing pains, but parents still have not a clue what goes on to run a pack. Yes some easier than others to run maybe from more help?? My hats off to all you DL'S, CM'S, etc... that you take TIME to make it possible that your boys are having fun, learning things, like values, life principals,but what is makes it worse is when you have parents that are not involved or won't committ to help,either they don't know how or wants someonelse to do it?? My case in point, I am Dl for a den, mine you with our pack so far we have only 3 dens because there ages, grades. We had a Dl for tigers, but it failed thru, after repeated attempts and weeks went by, I stepped up and became leader of that den also, just so boys would not fill left out. Please don't think I am bragging on myself, I am not, only trying to show something here, That cub scouts especially is not a 1 person show, but a Team effort. No wonder why DL's and others get burned out so quickly and packs (new ones especially) shut down. I had a planned a go-see-it with tigers, actually went to pick the mom because of car problems, when I get there, she askes " do I have to come", ugh,YES my response. I step in to help out,they are all for it, but when it is time go?? Almost makes me think they want me do all, take them and come back and tell how it went. With regards feel like the BIGGEST copout for a parent helping or being is a DL is ( I can't do that or don't know how). To what do we tell our boys, our motto: DO YOUR BEST!!!!! I had no background in this, but am willing, Thats the Key, DO MY BEST. You know I rather do that and try and fail, than be parent sitting on the sidelines complaing about something should had been done diffent or they would have done this way. Guess in a nut shell, we need more involvement from parents, then just gripping. Sorry for the long rant.

Okay new to all this will be a WDL next year, please forgive to ask this, how it is a 1st year webelo can obtain his AOL? I qoute this from the following: Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old) By this you are lead to believe that they can not start earning the AOL till they are done with 4th grade. The age deal is a tough one, my son who's b-day is January won't be 10 till then would have to wait till summer? How does this happen, guess I am missing something?? can you explain thanks?

Cubby's Cubmaster, You stated the gutters worked well when mount on wood, are meaning that gutters was screwed down like from inside onto a flat 1x6? thanks

Lisa Bob, thanks for the insight, as all the stuff about getting trained, just found out tonight that the upcoming Baloo training that I have paid for already has been cancelled. Apparently that had some other training that had been postpond and they changed that date to one that Baloo was to be held on. People have already got upset, people on training staff told the higher ups that there packs are planning on going camping in spring that need training. I just can't catch a break. Although I am planning on going to another training for Webelo specfic least I will have that done.

Scout Nut, Thanks for the advice, as i talked to boys dad, he stated boy was not really interested but when the camping, and such was talked about thought it would be cool. So yes the boy was mislead to a point, and I did talk to father about it and he said he was going to talk to son, maybe it might change his mind.This boy likes to camp and does with his dad. You mentioned something that nobody in our pack except me is doing, TRAINING! I am the only member who has signed up to take Baloo, which don't think anyone even knows what it is, but yet none is even taking a effort in getting info about these types of things. I am also planning on taking WELOT training within the next couple of months, which I am not sure if our webelos DL has even taken yet? So yes all the things you mentioned earlier, training, finaces, etc.. before things get done is reason lot things haven't got done. thanks for your help. Scout Fish, Appericate your responses and seeing where i was coming from, think if you are new, like me you could interpet the rules wrongly. Think sometimes people over look these things, thanks for the help, bear dad

thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.Not sure how the BB gun shooting came up, think I asked about archery. Yes I know that bb guns and archery are classified shooting sports therefore they in same heading. Know now they are suppose to be done at certain places. don't plan on doing a den meeting with these. Only asked why and if I could , did not want belt loops for this just a fun thing to do for one our den meetings. I more put out that we can't camp as a den, yes know that is the rule and probably going to lose a boy over this and other things as he was expecting to do these things some with our den, least that was the ideal I got from father as he was stating what the former DE told the boys at the round up at school, that they can do these things, but probably never told boys/ parents they can do these things under certain conditions, i.e. day camp, etc.. All I am trying to do is make it fun and interesting for boys, yes have hikes in place and other things, but when you tell or leave a boy to believe he can do something and don't tell him that things have to be done first, and then just tell him you can't, what do you think will happen? I do want to thank all of the help and advice.

Lisa BOb, Concepts and Guidelines The Cub Scout Academics and Sports program is based on the following concepts and guidelines Each Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout will be presented with the appropriate recognition item for completing the requirements, whether he does so as an individual Scout, with his family, with his den or pack, or in his school or community and what Greaves sent a link to Academics and Sports Belt Loops You earn a belt loop to wear with your uniform when you complete three specific requirements for each Academics or Sports activity. You can take part in three ways: (1) by yourself or with your family, (2) in your den or pack, or (3) in school. Okay maybe I am reading this wrong to me I can let my den do archery at 1 a den meeting. Although I am not wanting to be used for belt loops, just something cool for boys to due. By these statements is okay, can you explain if it is not? thanks

Lisa Bob, thanks for the help and suggestions, hopefully all will work out? Thats why I ask questions, like this forum site lot of useful suggestions.Thanks

Thanks everyone appericate the help. Let say as far as training, think I have took all the online courses I can take I think? We have been to roundtable a couple of times enjoy it meet some nice folks there and getting some networking started. the last one was cancelled, plan on attending next one. Would like to ask these 2 questions please, as far as the archery question regarding my den, I am NOT looking for belt loops for the boys just having fun in backyard thing, by the earlier post this not allowed also. When people qoute rule #'s as to BSA policy where can one get a copy? Please forgive me but getting mixed messages as some say BEND RULES , some say Don't, all I am trying to do is my best, which as it seems isn't good enough to some. Thanks to one all.

Okay got to talk to boys father last night, this what he had to say. He said boy for lead to believe that he could things like camping, bb guns ect.. when the man now a former DE when he came to a round up at school, I was not there when this took place. Told father yes boys can do these thing but a lot what the man was refering to was at camps and such. Let me be clear about this, we as a pack have not a lot of help getting our pack going, council lost over half of our appilications making everyone fill new ones. They have not offered a lot of support us as far as relaying info, training etc.. I HAVE found out a lot of this info on my own, so I have tried to help myself as well as our pack finding out things. Don't think anyone has put forth the effort to try find out or even wants too. Back to boy, told father we are planning to go a do some things and also said that if just the 2 can take our sons and go, just a couple of friends together.Wait and see how that goes, still if boy does not to be in scouts no matter what you do he won't be happy enough. As to where we have den meetings, have them at my house. lot of times we are outside using tools , playing games.ONLY TIME I have them inside is if rainning or bad weather. Talked to a father last night dropped off te boys fees we talked for a 1hr, he said his boy is having fun, loves working with tools. Told him what we are planning and he has offered to help as he has acess to shop we take boys let use sanders and such, also told we are planning on these things as well.He likes what I am trying and the effort that is being into it. Beavah, Guess you more exeperience than me, as I did not I could take training on my such as Baloo. Let me ask you this, is there any thing in rules that says that I can not have boys shoot a bow and arrow and one our den meetings? I have plans for two hikes within the month and some other things as well so hopefully the den will get better and boys will still have fun. Thanks for the suggestions, please keep in mind not everyone has same amount of knowledge about scouts, thanks

Basement dweller, yes we play lots of games, even parents are getting in on it, and all boys are laughing. We make a lot things, crafts, they get to use drills, tools, so they are doing things, We have a hike planned, but weather is not good, ice on roads coming preventing us to do it this week. I plan taking them out for a boat ride since I own one, I did talk to boys father, and he said that boy had some different thoughts as what it should be like. Meaning when the man came to school he was talking about cool things they did, like bb guns,archery. he got the notion that is what did at den meetings. Told father lot these things get done at camps and such. Boy also not really wants to be in scouts, dad is making him, so really it comes down to if he don't want to be in it, no matter what cools things we do, he won't be happy?

Snow_White , Send to thefisherman2@cox.net thanks

DYB-MIKE, Agree with you, about DENS as along as the safety requirements are in place and people are trained. have a boy wanting to leave becuase we have not went yet,"see working with kids" threads. yes i have heard people going around the rules to go, but don't want to do this just make 1 boy happy. Think your right about retention or recruting,lot of boys no matter what ages like the outdoors. Shoot for a new Tiger cub just going out side getting to sleep in a sleeping bag in a tent in the BACK YARD is a BIG DEAL! They don't even have to do anything else. Maybe people up at BSA need to look at this with open mind, and think how it could help promote scouting in general.

ScoutNut, At no time did the leaders give the boys (especially tigers-bears) the ideal of camping all the time, only will able to go at somepoint, i.e. family camp out times, council camps,etc. As a brand new pack,don't think all people,especially parents, they don't know the details what training in place before we go. On the other side to this boy, he has been told by me and others we have a camp out scheduled but there things need to be done first. Guess we could get together "outside of scouts" and just go camping, i.e. pay for everything yourself, drive etc... think boy will make a good BS in future, as he likes the outside alot. Beavah, I do welcome boy expressing himself, however if he been told that we can't just go without having things in place, what should we do bend the rules just for him? I am gung ho about going camping, would like to take the boys right now, but I know to take bears it needs to be a family camp out. have other boys like the ideal but they understand certain things have to be done first. Also would like to take note that boy is not working on his book. We do some fun stuff at den meetings, and we are planning on a hike in next couple weeks, soon as we can get parents info and weather is okay. let me add this, if all parents/boys were upset about not doing this or that, why are they complaining in first place as over half are not paying dues or late, or have even have paid there recharter fees yet? This is another reason some things have not been done yet. By the scout words upset about not going camping, is "Helping the Pack GO"?

Howdy, Here is the situation, have a boy in my den. has miised a couple of recent den meeting, other than that, been active. Wife ran into boy at school and he told her that he was thinking about quiting. Wife called talked to father and he said that son thinks we should have gone camping already or be doing more of it by now. Wife told him that certain things needs to be inplace before we can go, training and such as he is a Bear scout. Dad also thinks since he has not helped in his book, boy may have a lost interest. I have not got to speak to his father yet,are we as adults, leaders sending the wrong message to these boys that soon as they join a cub level, boom camping starts? Think the boy just generally likes camping, but does not know ALL that goes into going? Yes we are planning on a Pack campout in near future, once someone has been Baloo trained which I am going next session, still a couple months away, Try to tell boy to hang in there till end of year when he will be a Webelo then we can camp a lot, but same time, don't to give the boy the ideal if he don't get want he wants, when he wants it,then we bend over backwards just for him. Think that is what wrong with SOME, STRESS SOME kids today, think they deserve some thing when they have not did anything to EARN IT? Parents are guilty for giving into it just as much. thought scouts teaches them more than just ME, ME, ME.I am proud to say that in our den some boys right off the bat,says good job, we play games and one team loses, or nice try, or claps when someone is getting reconized for something, think that is 1 way WE HELP THE PACK GO! Have any you have the same type problems? polls are now open

Snow_White Sent you a pm thanks

Since this is a subject that I will deal with sometime this year, to those who have done this with the bears, what type info/ instructions did you give the boys to use? Did all the boys get the card at same time, or did couple here or there? Just wondering how to instruct, od do it correctly thanks

I believe that Totin Chip is the name they use in boy scout program.