phazelag

The scouts I was referring to were not just the cubs, It was cubs through webelos and the webelos looked the worst out of all of them. Actually our tigers were the better-looking ones. This was a pack meeting not a den meeting. And I am just on here gaining perspective. And yes when I was in scouts, boys got sloppy, but not at the level I saw at this meeting. I know its not the military. But learning to have pride in your uniform is something that I felt was a valuable lesson I learned in scouts. And that pride gives you confidence to do other things in life. My wife owned a daycare and is now an elementary and special ed teacher and I was a DeMolay Advisor for many years and now I am the assistant den leader, and we have four kids, so we are quite familiar with kids behavior. And one thing we know is that kids like having standards. It gives them a sense of order and predictability. So to drop standards and say they are just kids (even in 1st grade) is not fair to the kids, and you have done them a disservice in my opinion. I dont know where everyone on here is from, but where I am we have so many kids who already dont have a male role model and get very little discipline because the mom is exhausted from doing everything herself. So when they come to scouts that may be the only structure they will see. And they enjoy it. Why would we take that away from them? Its not because they are kids, its because we as adults forgot or never understood the value in standards. I appreciate everyones input to my situation, It has been helpful. I think that when the timing is appropriate and I am a trusted leader I will suggest a uniform class at a meeting. Z

Bob, That is great information and I agree about the leadership issue. And from what I can tell from talking to the leaders, All the moms like under the collar and all the dads like over the collar and there are more mothers than dads. But all those mothers kids look sloppy, because they are in proper uniform, but the collars are flipped up, or only one collar is on top, or etc. So I will wait until I have been around longer and have proven myself as a valuable contributor and then bring it up. Z

Yes I did see the rule about rolling the collar under and that actually may be the problem right there. No one wants to do that, for comfort reasons. But on the boys in cub scouts at that size the neckerchief covers almost the whole collar anyway. But the uniform is the uniform. My son is not old enough for Boy Scouts yet and my Older son was in BSA while I was in the Army and unfortunately I was deplyed so much that I was not as involved. So I dont remember what they did. So I cant really comment on the Boy Scout age boys. I am only talking about Cubs where the neckerchief seems to be a big part of the uniform. Z

I guess I should mention my son is in cub scouts and he is a tiger cub. So I am guessing for that the neckerchief is not optional, but I am not sure. So I was seeing Tigers though Webelos all wearing them, but not one looked like another.

Bob, I wore the neckerchief over my collarless neckerchief about 25 years ago and my oldest son wore it over a collar tucked in about 8 years ago. Now my youngest son goes to a pack where there seems to be neckerchief Chaos. I think taking pride in your uniform is an important lesson that scouts learn and to let it turn into this, seems counter productive to why many of us hove a our kids join the scouts. Letting the neckerchief turn into a sloppy mess is the same as letting a teen-ager wear his pants below his behind. When it was over the neck, the kids could play and be kids and it still looked relatively uniform and neat. Maybe a little pull and tuck and it looked reasonable again. Now with it under the collar the boys are always in varying degrees of sloppy. The time lag in noticing these things comes from people who were scouts and then havent seen a scout until their kids become scouts. And to those who saw my post as an attack on the women, you read my intentions completely wrong. The women are stepping up and I admire them. And I am the assistant den leader now. I will take on more responsibility as positions open up. I cant just up and take over. Other than the uniform, they are a very good pack and den. This was a uniform forum so thats what I was talking about. And if a man wrote the current manual I am guessing he wrote it based on what he saw as a trend with the uniforms, instead of looking at how it should be. And no matter what we shouldnt be afraid to fix something, so many of us can see that it is plainly sloppy. Z

Hello all, I just went to my sons first pack meeting and I was slightly disgusted, by how sloppy all the boys looked by trying to wear the neckerchief under the collar. I was a cub scout and I still have my uniform, which is blue with no collar. I understand not valuing function, but having placed under the collar should not count as fashion either. This is a fashion disaster. The collars get turned up and dont stay in place. These boys look sloppy. And there is no uniformity in the uniforms. I place this blame on the fathers. Because I looked around and the pack and almost all the dens were being ran by mothers. I give applause to the moms for stepping up. Be this trend of moms not dads who were scouts has had to play a part in this feminization of the uniform. Just my opinion. Z