pfann

Police Officer for 14 years, last 5 1/2 as a detective. Six years as DARE/crime prevention. About 18 months ago I decided I wasn't busy enough raising 5 boys (2 in cubs, 1 can't wait and 2 more who aren't old enough to know yet) so I got a job as a paid-on-call firefighter/EMT. I also do occasional "hospitality" (translate:security) jobs for the Catholic Archdiocese where I live. How did I become Cubmaster. Easy. The former CM and current Committee Chair saw I had 5 boys coming up and he knew he had his replacement. I have posted some but not in a while. Been doing plenty o'lurkin however.

My father was 65 when he passed away last September. In his younger days, he did a hitch in the Navy during the late 50's. I cried at the funeral when I received his flag from the VA. I cried again when I looked through his military papaes and books from his Navy days. I cried again when I got his cold war certificates from the government. Again I shed a tear when I realized he never applied for Social Security or Medicare because he didn't want to be dependent on anyone else. I get choked up when my wife's uncle talks of his service in the Army during WWII, although my wife doesn't know that. My wife doesn't quite understand when I cry like a baby watching Saving Private Ryan. I been choking up reading this thread and trying to type this post. I believe that many immigrants have a special appreciation for what freedom means in this country. But some of us native born folks have paid atttention to what it means too. Maybe if more of us had an appreciation for our freedoms we might not have to work so hard to defend them all the time. If I may twist a quote from Churchill, America is the most imperfect of countries...except for all the rest.

ASM1, Im glad you laughed, the post was meant that way. Now, I don't speak for kwc, but I think I may understand where he is coming from. You did post a reference to a white supremacist web site. That alone does not necessarily mean you subscribe to all their views, but I am sure you understand that anything from white supremacist groups tends to be viewed with great skepticism, and by extension folks who associate with these groups (or post references from them) tend to be viewed with skepticism. This may not be fair but these groups have earned their reputation I think. My opinion on the overall topic. I tend to have somewhat libertarian views about the role of the federal government. I think the feds should be limited in scope in what they do. I do believe that defense of the nation is a legitimate role of the feds. I believe our military is not as strong as it should be. I think the North Koreans sense this as well and look at Iraq as an opportunity to push their agenda becasue the US wil not be able to slap them back into their place. Call me naive but I don't really see that "vast right wing conspiracy" in all of this. I see groups and countries that dont like America and are bent on our destruction. I don't care why they dont like the US, I only know they must be stopped from destroying us. I kinda like this country!

Call it a hunch but I don't think ASM1 or fella will be sporting any Jewish religious award emblems on their uniforms anytime soon!

OGE, Check the official charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization. It calls for the elimination of Israel as a nation and as a people. How does one "make nice" with those who have sworn not only to defeat you but to wipe you from the face of the earth? I find it interesting how many people absolutely discount anything the President says but when a "communication" form Bin Laden calls Saddam an infidel these same people take it literally. When the US government alleges Iraqui ties to terrorism, we call it a conspiracy of the mil/industrial complex and the zionists. But when Saddam says he is nothing but a nice guy, we take his word for it. I am afraid to ask but where do you conspiracy guys stand on the Kennedy assassination?

The US did not lose the Vietnam war on the battlefield. The TET Offensive was a MAJOR defeat for the North Vietnamese. They had as many casualties in one offensive as the US had in the entire war. However, for the US it was a MAJOR political defeat on the homefront and was the beginning of the end of our involvement in Vietnam. I find it interesting that some are criticizing the President for his actions, claiming he is trying to protect American oil interests and at the same time these same folks are saying the French, Germans, and Russians are basically failing to take action so they can protect their economic/oil interests. These countries according to some posts here do not want to stop SH, a known terrorist supporter, murderer (the Kurds, etc), and a threat to any hope of peace in the Middle East. I would agree with some osts that some countries are putting profits over principles, I just disagree on what particular countries were referring to.

ASM1, I would not look so much for an organized religion in a school setting because that may imply an endorsement of a particular faith. I think of this in terms of not discouraging the individual display of faith. For example, I have seen many stories where children were assigned book reports, learning a song, etc. A student selects something relevant to their faith such as a book report about a book in the bible or a religious song. The student is then told that he/she can not submit their choice of project. Other examples I have seen were in schools where students were not allowed to wear a shirt with a religious saying or were not allowed to have a religious style after-school group. These individual displays if allowed do not in my opinion constitute an endorsement of any religion nor does it encourage/require displays of faith by the school/government. These things merely ALLOW individuals to display their faith. I also understand that these types of situations don't happen all over. There are many schools/principals/teachers who handle these things with a great deal of common sense

BW, You bring up some good points. The example I was thinking of was funding. At the pack level we participate in the popcorn fundraiser. Some packs conduct other fundraisers throughout the year. there are policies and guidelines about this. It is up to the pack to decide how they will raise funds as long as it follows the fundraising follows policy. I have seen guidelines for internet sites for packs/troops. Not all sites are the same but they are supposed to follow the guidelines. Some units do not even have web sites. Some councils even decide to get funding sources that other councils may not go after (whoops bad example-see other topics on that issue)! -pfann

I will be in Vegas this weekend for a bachelor party (relax I plan on following the Scout Law/Oath and being a good role model for my kids)! I look forward to catching up with all of you thoughts on this forum. -pfann

"We are one nation, not simply a collection of states" Actually in my opinion, we are one nation AND a collection of states. The Founding Fathers had the wise idea that a strong nation needed a strong central government, but also needed decentralized power in the form of states rights in order to serve as a check and balance to insure the central (or federal) government did not become too powerful. During the time of the Constitutional debates the federalists (Federalist Papers?) believed there were sufficient checks on the power of the federal governemtn. The anti-federalists believed in a federal geovernemtn but thought it too powerful as outlined in the Constitution. The compromise of these two groups was the Bill of Rights. Many political debates stem from these ideas. Some say the federal government should be able to do this or that, and others say the federal government should not be doing this or that. If you think about it, isn't this how BSA is supposed to work. BSA national set policies and guidelines and the local councils/packs/troops/crews implement those policies as they see fit. Our pack meetings are similar to others in our area but not exactly alike. Many of the debates here in this forum follow a similar vein. Some say certain policies should be determined nationally and some say they should not be?

Zahnada, I don't speak for others but in my post I did not intend to single out you, your troop, council, district, etc. I was merely speaking from my experience which has been great. You bring up some good points, it is just when I think about this topic I am reminded of something former U.S. House of Representatives Speaker of the House Tip O'Neil once said, "all politics are local." My point is that many positive things can be accomlished at the local level no matter what happens at National. Keep on Scoutin, pfann

If not me, who? If not now, when? I agree with the last post(s) about boring programs. There is another point to consider that is somewhat related to this boring concept; It interesting to hear solutions about the BSA image problem...BSA needs PR...BSA needs to change policy...BSA needs to do this or that. If we need PR, that can be done at the local level...crews, troops and packs must be active in the community. Show people the good we do. Show them that scouting is not just about gays or atheist issues. Show them that scouting is fun, adventurous and exciting. These things will change perceptions over time. But we must not wait for "BSA" to do it. WE are the BSA. I am in my 30's and know many parents in their 30's and 20's who were in cubs but not boy scouts. Their attitudes that boy scouts were not "cool" I believe is transferred to their children. I am constantly talking about what I do with my sons (cub scouts) and how much fun WE are having. I tell people that I highly recommend scouting every chance I get. I try to show people that I have as much fun as my kids. When popcorn sales were going on I did not merely take the sales sheet in to work, I made sure my oldest son came to work in uniform so he could learn to do the job and others could see his example of what scouting is and how much fun it is. I have had only one person talk to me about anything dealing with BSA and controversial isssues and this was my brother in law. I think he likes to say anything to make me mad (and has been very unsuccessful lately I might add!) I have to go take a calm down pill now I am so excited! If not me, who? If not now, when?

leV, I disagree with your reasoning and I disagree with your political views. I don't consider this a problem, just a point of discussion be tween all of us. I think it is entirely appropriate to disagree in a civil and respectful manner. Many of my friends are far more liberal than I (and a brother in law more liberal than you, I think!) We have very spirited debates about many issues. Sometimes opinions change sometimes they don't. good and bad points are made on all sides. At the end of the day we are still friends. I do not understand the need to show no respect for a person because they diasgree with you, although you are right that is your choice. What point of the Scout Law does that fall under BTW? I do not see how Scalia's viewpoints undermine the Constitution. I repeat my questions again, Where has he advocated for a national religion? Where has he said christianity should be held in higher esteem than other faiths? Where has he stated that christianity is the only religion that should be allowed by law?

leV, "He is intitled only to the same and equal respect as other citizens, period....." Well then how about showing respect and courtesy to A.Scalia, fellow citizen. It seems as if you show less respect for those who don't agree with you. I still am looking for an answer to my question. Scalia, in the original post said that the government has been too hostile to organized religion, primarily christianity. Where has he advocated for a national religion? Where has he said christianity should be held in higher esteem than other faiths? Where has he stated that christianity is the only religion that should be allowed by law? To the best of my knowledge, Scalia never said any of those things. However, substitute the word Muslim for Christianity and you will find those beliefs in many countries, primarily the Middle East and North Africa.

A few points to consider, Police departments in some states are limited to what they can provide to the public in terms of criminal histories. In Michigan police officers must document a reason for running a criminal history and those reasons are limited (police job applicant, suspect in a crime, etc.) A person can submit a name and pay a fee to the Michigan State Police for a criminal conviction history but this is only for the state of Michigna, no out of state information. This process also takes several weeks. A person could individually get information about a criminal history but that would entail contacting EVERY court in the state. I have not dealt with ChoicePOint but have worked with a competitor to do background checks on people. What these companies do is tap into public records across the nation and compile that information for their clients. they pay employees to compile records from all courts and other public record agencies and they put all the info together. In all my experience with these types of companies, I have never once seen any political affiliation information in their reports. I am sure they could get this info but I, in my limited experience in scouting cant see BSA wanting or asking for this info., especially when the policy says you must be informed of the reason you are not allowed to volunteer. The BSA would not be able to fake a criminal past because they did not like a volunteers political leanings Lastly, many police agencies do contract with these companies to get information as part of their investigations. I work for one of these departments. They provide info that assists us and it is info that we don't have the time and resources to get on our own.