Peregrinator

Considering the number of businesses that fail, and the number of community businesses that close when their owners retire or die, one would think that a "Parents of" organization would be no worse than "Vinnie's Pizza Parlor".

You mean like the LDS or the Order of the Arrow? I'm not sure that's a good analogy - the LDS isn't a youth organization.

Da trick is, there are some practical reasons why yeh want NFP status that relate to negligence immunity for volunteers, which both protects leaders and reduces the BSA's insurance exposure. Another practical reason to incorporate as a non-profit would be to allow the chartering organization to solicit donations that could then go directly to assist the troop.

Sorry, had one more question which I forgot. How is the spiritual aspect of the program handled in AHG? Are there ecumenical prayers and services? Are most troops chartered by churches and, if so, do they tend to recruit their members from among them?

Is AHG all-volunteer, or do they have executives and paid support staff like the BSA?

Do you want to see natural features? Maine, vermont and New hampshire are very nice. Urban type of trip? New York, Philidelphia, DC, Miami, Boston, Charleston, are nice choices. Actually, Philadelphia is good for natural features as well thanks to the Wissahickon Valley.

Is the AHG program based on the BSA program, Baden-Powell's program, original material, or some combination of the three?

I don't think AHG has too wide a tent, not at the regional/national level anyway. At the troop level, maybe, depending on how the troops are organized.

"Peregrinator, help me understand what you are saying. Do you intend to suggest that the BSA would be better off to pick not only one major faith background (say, Christianity), but also that it would be better to specify a particular denomination within that faith (say, Presbyterians)?" No, not necessarily. I don't think it is possible for the BSA to do that. What would be possible (and desirable, I think) would be for troops and dens to be separated by religion. I think in the first few decades of Scouting this was the norm -- at least for say Catholic troops. But as I'm not involved with the BSA, that's not up to me -- the BSA can do whatever it believes works for them. I just don't see how an ecumenical service can possibly please all. Someone is always going to be upset, whether it is agnostics, Muslims, neo-pagans, etc. And trying to please everyone is what leads to indifferentism. I don't mean that Christian scouts should not learn about other religions, say, but I don't think that one should tell them that there's nothing special about Christianity and God will accept them just fine if they're Muslim. "Also, and please forgive my ignorance, what is FSE?" Federation of European Scouts (Federation Scoutisme Europeen).

"If your not involved with the BSA and youve said you dont know much about AHG.....which scouting group are you with?" FSE "and its not indifferntism....it was showing respect to all religions. It allowed them to worship their beliefs instead of conforming to the traditional christianity." Suggesting that the Bible and the Qur'an have the same standing *is* indifferentism. It goes beyond mere human respect. That's not to say that Muslims shouldn't be able to worship as they wish -- only that it would be best if, a group has a spiritual dimension, that it not be religiously mixed. And that is one of my issues with AHG, as well, that it tries to appeal to Christians of all stripes.

"You do realize that the BSA perspective on religion is much more like that of the Masons and the Rainbow girls than the AHG don't you." That is why I am not involved with the BSA.

"In the International Order of the Rainbow for girls (which is a group under the masons for young ladies) they had an exchange student come for a year that was muslim. The kuran and the bible were put out so as to accomidate her." Some might view that as indifferentism. I would not get involved with an organization that promoted that view. I think the solution for those who find AHG unaccommodating would be to do what AHG did and start their own organization, or try to affiliate with an existing organization that shares their values. Yes, it can be difficult to start something from scratch. But I don't think it is more difficult than lobbying for BSA/GSUSA/AHG/etc. to change. Consider this: the BSA is huge and "official"; the likelihood of a few people effecting change in the organization is minimal. The AHG was founded for a specific purpose or "mission," so again, the likelihood of effecting change is small. I don't mean that people shouldn't point out injustice when it exists -- but even then, decrying injustice can be exhausting and that energy could be better spent on other projects.

My guess is that AHG doesn't refer to itself as a "scouting" program in order to avoid the use of the term, which is trademarked by the BSA. But whether an organization says that its program is a scouting program has little to do with whether or not it actually is a scouting program! I think it would be difficult to show that a particular program is not a scouting program, honestly. If there were little or no focus on the outdoors, then that would be a clear indication, but that doesn't seem to be the case with the AHG. And "Scouting For All" is not a scouting program as they say on their web site, "Scouting For All is not an alternative scouting program." That's not to say that they couldn't be, just that they aren't.

I suspect that they're not allowed to call them "scouts", at least not publicly. Other groups in the U.S. and Canada not affiliated with WOSM or WAGGGS have the same issue.

This is off-track, but some might argue that it is indifferentism rather than ecumenism that is fostered by having non-sectarian scouting organizations. But be that as it may, my understanding is that the "sectarian" scouting organizations in Europe arose after WWII, not at the very beginning of scouting. Also, I'm not sure that the AHG can be compared to them. AHG troops can be religiously mixed, right? That is, the leaders must be Christian, but the leaders of a particular troop need not all be Protestant or Catholic, etc.?

Maybe BadenP encountered a troop of AHGs who were more into proselytization than evangelization through scouting. But then there are probably GSUSA troops who are more into social justice than scouting and BSA troops who do more "parlour scouting" than anything else. Heck, I don't remember my brother's Boy Scout troop ever going camping apart from summer camp. But it's possible that time has clouded my memories -- that was 25 years ago.

New member here. I'm not sure what it is about the AHG program that makes it not a scouting program. Please note - I don't have any experience with them and they're not exactly my cup of tea - I'm just wondering what it is about them that disqualifies them from being a scouting organization. As far as size is concerned they claim 18,000 members (at least according to Wikipedia). That's as large as some of the major European scouting organizations (at least at the national level). Of course they are tiny in comparison to the BSA or GSUSA, each of which has millions of members. On the other hand, they are large in comparison to, say, the BPSA in the U.S. It may well be that they are not a good match for the BSA. But none of these things means that they are not a scouting organization -- not their size, not their religious dimension, and not whether they are a good partner for the BSA. As I mentioned above, the AHG is not my cup of tea, for two reasons: (1) I think if one is going to have a religious scouting program, one shouldn't be ecumenical -- a group ought to be *all* Catholic, or *all* Protestant, etc. and (2) I don't like their emphasis on being specifically American.