Peregrinator

All you have to do is look at a troop of Scouts and observe the number of overweight boys and leaders to see we are not accomplishing those objectives. Is that the fault of the program, the troop, or is it the fault of what scouts are doing in their time outside the troop, modern lifestyles being what they are? I don't put much stock in BMI as mine is 29.5 (5'9" 200#).

So what's a Baden Powell group? Assuming he means this: http://bpsa-us.org/ I'm not sure how one can be "co-ed" and "inclusive" while being "traditional," however.

I have to imagine that the number of 6-11 year-old boys and girls who identify as homosexual or lesbian is very very small if not actually zero.

Why don't these people put half the energy they use in defaming and harassing Scouting toward creating their own youth group that does what they claim they want? Because it's hard and it takes serious effort on the part of the leaders and parents.

May be an old chestnut, but what about "Rikki-tikki-tavi"? It's longer than what you asked for but could be broken down a bit -- e.g., family takes Rikki in, he is confronted with a couple of situations where he must protect them, etc. Or you might start with B-P's "Wolf Cub's Handbook" - he retells a few stories from the Jungle Book; I'm sure there are a number of them in which the characters have such dilemmas. Maybe your boys are too old for that sort of thing, though.

I don't think it is "misogyny" to support male leaders for boys and female leaders for girls.

I thought the RC church was currently hard pressed to find anyone who wanted to be a priest or a nun? The majority of them are aging out, and not enough to replace them. Depends on the order/diocese. The liberal orders of religious are definitely dying out. The more conservative/traditional ones are not thriving, but are growing -- problem is that in some cases they started from scratch and so are very small. There will come a time when demand exceeds supply, and those will be tough times for the Church.

I'm not sure on the stats, but at least a fair number of COs in Catholic churches are actually under the Knights of Columbus, who tend to be very orthodox in their support of the teachings of the Pope. Interesting ... worth noting that the Knights of Columbus have a youth program, the Columbian Squires. I don't know much about them, but it would seem that some of what they do overlaps with scouting (IOW, the KOC already has the groundwork laid for starting its own alternative scouting program).

I wouldn't really think the RC church would "ban" membership; I don't think they have done that is Europe have they? No, but then in Europe scouting is often split along religious lines. For example, in France, the Scouts de France, the Unitary Scouts of France, and the Scouts d'Europe are all Catholic. Granted, scouting in France is very fragmented ... but there are also organizations for Protestants, Jews, and Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France Italy is similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_Italy

(2) Catholic Units will be split. A top-down directive against scouting would kill some C.O.'s. I do not think the Catholic Church could organize it's own competitive organization. They might try. A top-down directive would be very unlikely. As far as competitive organizations go, there are already such organizations in Europe (UIGSE-FSE) and South America (CADISCA). But a different situation prevails there or, should I say, prevailed there. The countries that are core members of those organizations are historically Catholic countries (e.g. France, Italy, Argentina).

There are also plenty of liberal Catholics out there. Ummm, yes, I am familiar with that phenomenon. (There are liberal Mormons too.) On the whole I think parishes are less "liberal" than some individual Catholics might be (which is why certain parishes get a reputation for liberalism ... liberal Catholics tend to cluster there).

Since the Catholic Church has not disaffiliated with the GSUSA or CampFire (both "inclusive") I don't imagine that as a whole it will stop affiliating with the BSA if the latter should change its policy with respect to homosexuals. Some, but not all, parishes will stop chartering packs and troops, and some, maybe even many, parents will pull their boys out.

I doubt he wanted racially integrated units, either. I've not seen any evidence that he supported racial segregation in scout units. He did tolerate it in places like South Africa where he had no power to enforce it, but in general I think he did support integration. Perhaps you ought to check before you tar our Founder's reputation. I'm pretty sure he would have protested female leaders. Good for him! I doubt he would have wanted a Chess merit badge, or even a Wood Badge for the 21st Century. I don't think anyone cares what he would have liked. I'm not referring to the BSA, but the BPSA. I know that scouting has gotten away from Baden-Powell's ideals, but ISTM that an organization that names itself after Baden-Powell ought to care about that he wanted.

I do find it interesting that a group that claims to espouse traditional scouting and even has Baden-Powell in its name would be inclusive where atheism is concerned. B-P himself was opposed to atheism. I also doubt he would have been supportive of co-ed units which the BPSA supports.

What did the owner say that was so offensive? By the way, here is what he actually said, not what he was widely quoted as saying: http://www.getreligion.org/2012/07/wheres-the-beef-what-the-chick-fil-a-boss-really-said/

How is your unit at fault when appointing a person, if they don't volunteer the information? If she didn't volunteer the information, knowing what the BSA's policy is, then she is at fault. I would find it unlikely that someone volunteering as a scout leader would be ignorant of the policy considering how it has been trumpeted in the media. If she was ignorant when she was appointed, and later found out what the policy was, then the honorable thing would have been for her to resign. Why on earth would a unit under BSA charter want a leader who disregards BSA policy? If one can disregard that policy, then one can disregard any policy.

So Peregrinator, are you suggesting that at recruiting night, pack leaders inquire into the sexual orientations of each parent who shows up with a boy who is eager to join the pack? Umm, no, I'm not going there. Not sure how you got that from my post. I simply pointed out that if a pack allows a lesbian to be a leader within the group, and she is later forced out by the BSA, that it is the fault of the pack for allowing it in the first place in contravention to the BSA's rules. The BSA's rules on the matter are certainly no mystery.

Isn't that the fault of the Cub Scout pack that allowed her to volunteer, in opposition to the stated and well-known policy of the BSA?

I think too that people would rather be governed by their own and don't want foreign invaders telling them how they ought to live.

I also like the focus of both BS and AHG on loyalty to country. I think every scouting organization does, or should, have loyalty to country or sovereign in its scout promise.

Canada spends less per capita on medical care than the U.S. Maybe there are some things that they could do better but they've certainly done a better job of controlling costs than we have. And I haven't seen that Canadians are any less healthy than their neighbors to the south.

Does the AHG hide the fact that they are explicitly Christian? ISTM that they're pretty open about it. I really think it is really crass of you to even claim to know what Baden Powell really truly thought about anything outside of scouting, as it would be mere speculation. It's not like Baden-Powell never wrote about religion. I cited one example ("Rock Five" in Rovering to Success). It isn't necessary to "channel" his spirit to know that he found attacks on Christianity -- including, yes, Catholicism -- disgraceful.

I would very much suggest that BadenP read "Rock Five" of his namesake's Rovering to Success so he can see the difference between himself and our Founder where religion is concerned. "If you are really out to make your way to success -- i.e. happiness -- you must not only avoid being sucked in by irreligious humbugs, but you must have a religious basis to your life." (Lord Baden-Powell, Rovering to Success) With that in mind, what could possibly be the issue with a scouting program seeking to provide that religious basis? or to supplement it where it already exists? If Muslims wish to have an explicitly Muslim scouting program, for example -- as they do in France (Scouts Musulmans de France) -- then why not? Similarly, if atheists want their own scouting program, then why not start one? What is stopping them?

No need to wonder! If there was a true emergency,(injury or illness where transporting would pose a problem) a "runner" (the ONLY time running was allowed in camp) would be sent to the nearest program area, each of which was equipped with a CB radio. @FrankScout, I realize that there must have been policies and procedures in place; what I am wondering is what did the boys and their parents do? I would imagine the former simply made do without their texting, music, and games, while the latter trusted their sons would be OK unless they heard otherwise. I can understand momof2cubs point -- there should have been better communication from the leadership (something as simple as "parents whose boys are sick enough to be taken to the hospital will be contacted individually; if you don't receive an individual message then your son is fine") -- but I don't think that is a reason to allow cell phones or other electronics on an outing.

If you find Gatorade too sugary (and it is), you might want to try Gookinaid/Vitalyte instead. I've not used it but it is less sweet and it doesn't have any fructose or sucrose in it -- only glucose.