perdidochas

My troop camps at least once a year at the council camp independent of summer camp/district/council activities. We've camped in the wild area of the camp (no designated camp sites), as well as in the campsite across the road from the showers. As a troop, we've swam, canoed and used the rifle/shotgun ranges.

Looking at my sons book, tenderfoot.....wow he has done all this so I sign it off, son is proud he has earned the rank already and he has been a boy scout for a week..... Meeting night come and my son is in tears because he did not earn the rank and an older boy needs to test him on the requirements. Son finally got the tenderfoot requirements done and now he needs to ask the SM for a conference......Scout waits a month and still hasn't asked.....he is afraid of the SM so I ask the SM for him and the SM tells me that my son has to ask.....What should I do???? The first paragraph is a Webelos issue, not a troop issue. The Webelos Den leader or his designees should be the only one signing off requirements. Parents (unless they are leaders or are teaching an activity badge) should not be signing off Webelos requirements. The second paragraph is a troop issue, and is hard for me to understand, but then again we have a smallish troop (20 or so scouts). The Scout has to ask. It's the way it works. If the Scout is so scared of the SM that he can't ask for a conference, how in the world is the Scout going to be brave enough to actually have one. Also, at this point, the SM should have a SM minute about this issue.

Brewmeister, At least in terms of the new Boy Scouts who have been Webelos, there should be some preparation (of both the boys and the parents) by the WDL for the boys' new role in Boy Scouts. I know that's what I viewed my role as WDL to be. Most of the things that BD's composite parent sees as a surprise at the Boy Scout level shouldn't be a surprise if the WDL is doing his/her job.

I get your point, but I think it shows a dysfunctional troop. First, you are disappointed that crafts aren't coming home? I was happy that my sons were no longer doing childish stuff. I was glad to see them identify trees, count tree rings and show me knots. Second, in terms of the first campout as a scout, had your son been putting up tents on his own? My boys had been helping me put up my huge tent, so the Scout tents were a breeze. I loved being a spectator at my first Scout campout. So they made pancakes with flavor crystals (our troops way of saying burned). It's part of it. Third, in Webelos, the parent already can't sign the book. If you were the WDL, then you should know that things change in Boy Scouts. Fourth, kid has to learn to ask the SM for a conference. It's part of the program. The ASM that works with new scouts tells them that.

Stosh, You forgot about the bunks for the SMs and ASMs, as well as the AC and quiet generator. Also, the big screen TVs set up inside the trailer doors.

Dsteele, It was Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) who stated "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Just a little aside, the proper (and original) name for it is duck tape, not duct tape. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/magazine/the-way-we-live-now-3-02-03-on-language-why-a-duck.html "The original name of the cloth-backed, waterproof adhesive product was duck tape, developed for the United States Army by the Permacel division of Johnson & Johnson to keep moisture out of ammunition cases. The earliest civilian use I can find is in an advertisement by Gimbels department store in June 1942 (antedating the O.E.D. entry by three decades -- nobody but nobody beats this column), which substitutes our product for the ''ladder tape'' that usually holds together Venetian blinds. For $2.99, Gimbels -- now defunct -- would provide blinds ''in cream with cream tape or in white with duck tape.'' " (skip a paragraph) "In 1945, a government surplus property ad in The Times offered 44,108 yards of ''cotton duck tape.'' The first citation I can find for the alternative spelling is in 1970, when the Larry Plotnik Company of Chelsea, Mass., went bust and had to unload 14,000 rolls of what it advertised as duct tape. Three years later, The Times reported that to combat the infiltration of cold air, a contractor placed ''duct tape -- a fiber tape used to seal the joints in heating ducts -- over the openings.''"

Bonding is from competing in a camporee in the pouring rain, it's not from harassing the younger scouts. New recently crossed over scouts don't need anything to add to their fear level.

Relationship with a pack is important, but on the other hand, troops differ. One size does not fit all. I look around at camporees, and see the variety of troops. I'm glad we have choices. I also look at some of the boys who were in my den and chose different troops. I'm very glad they aren't in my troop.

My observation is that it's scouts that shop for troops, not dens. My two Webelos Dens have Webelos that crossed over to several different troops, as well as those that stopped scouting after Arrow of Light. The next group of Webelos from my former pack did the same. Most (including my sons) did go to the troop sponsored by our CO. But we had some that didn't particularly like our troop, so they joined larger troops. Our troop has also gotten scouts from a pack besides our co-CO pack. Webelos, at least under my leadership, was preparation for Boy Scouts. I switched more of the decision making to the boys (giving them several choices). I emphasized some simple cooking (hobo meals and omelets in a bag). We worked on identifying wildlife/plantlife. If I had it to do over again, I'd do more non-council related campouts (i.e. not Webelos Weekends or Family Camps). Webelos don't have more in common with Boy Scouts than they do with Bears. It's about equal. I watch Webelos with Cub Scouts, and see the maturity difference. I watch the future crossover Webelos with Boy Scouts and also see a maturity difference (the biggest obvious difference being size). Webelos are not Boy Scouts. Similarly they aren't Cub Scouts. They are a little of both.

Cub Scouts Tiger Den Leader (youngest son's cohort) Bear Den Leader (older son's cohort) Webelos Den Leader (Older Son's cohort) for 18 months Webelos Den Leader (younger son's cohort) for 12 months Also, webmaster and Packmaster coordinator (meaning I made sure all the other DLs knew how to use Packmaster, and I did the advancement reports for the Committee). BSA Advancement Coordinator and assistant coffee drinker

I think Troop shopping is a good thing. That is how you choose a troop that meets the needs of your boy. I will admit, I only visited one troop with my oldest son, which happens to be the troop that is sponsored by the same charter org as the pack. However, I liked what I saw the first time. No need to look for something else. Several boys that were Webelos in my den joined other Troops. Honestly, I think our troop is better off for not having them. The same occurred with the crossover group that came to the troop this year. Some of their members joined other troops. I think Scouting is better off for that. Scouts can pick the troop that fits them. Our troop is a smallish (less than 20 boys) quiet low-key Troop. We like it that way. Every camporee I am happy about the choice.

Kc9, Do you suggest we change the Scout Oath when we allow atheists in?

I know of one local atheist family that had their older son in our pack. Only reason I know that they were an atheist family is that the younger son (who never became a cub scout) was a classmate of my younger son, and he said that his classmate was atheist. So are you strong atheists, meaning that you have no doubt that there is no possibility of God or gods, or are you weak atheists, and just see no signs that there is a God or gods.

Realistically speaking, it's rare to be able to get First Class in less than a year. It requires ten separate troop/patrol activities. We probably average 18 months for First Class (although it would be theoretically possible to do it in less time).

Anything can be a topic of heated discussion here. If you don't want to stir up discussion, why are you posting?

BadenP, No rule against river tubing for Webelos on up.

Beavah, I agree totally. If Uncle Joe is the only one who can take Bob to the campout, I'm not going to stop it. In fact, when I was Bear/Webelos Den Leader, we had just such a case. A Scout lived primarily with his grandmother (no grandfather in the picture), but the mother sometimes was. His uncle (who I have little doubt is gay, since I had a chance to meet his partner at a school event) would tent with him (and his little sister). I had no problem with it, as it was the only way the family could do it. I don't see anywhere in G2SS where coed family camping is prohibited.

I've done the teapot dance at a Pack meeting, because I forgot a tent pole. I've been told here that "singing" for your stuff is considered hazing. I have no problem with good natured fun, but I just don't see smushing cake in anybody's face to be fun. That said, I have no problem if you want to do it in your den or pack. My sons wouldn't participate in it, though, if it were their den or pack.

I just think there are a lot of better things for Cubs to do than to ruin perfectly good cake by rudely smushing it into their adult leader's face. I feel the same about brides/grooms smushing cake into their new spouse's face. It's just a destructive act for no good reason besides "fun". Ironically, I'm pro "singing" for your lost items, which to me is humiliation with a purpose.

The reply to Basement Dweller wasn't particularly scoutlike either. I don't see a good lesson the scouts can get out of this. When my boys were cubs, we used to do a "feller cake bake" in which cubs (with help from only their dad or other male relative (unless circumstances didn't allow, such as single moms without support)) would bake a cake, decorate it, and we would hold an auction to raise money for the pack.

Doesn't sound very scoutlike to me. Not going to comment on it in terms of technicalities, it's just not scoutlike, especially if any of the adult participants really don't care to do it.

Tampa Turtle wrote: Sadly one of the factors in this discussion is the fear that the public still associates Pedophile scout leaders with the gay issue. Grown men with boys and all that. So I imagine that is a part of the institutional "drag" on the issue. I agree 100% with the above. Like it or not, the above is an important part of the issue.

It's casual day at work (meaning jeans and t-shirts). I've got on my X-wing fighter t-shirt. May the Fourth be with you too.

While you say it's not an option, I still think leaving is the best. There is no much dysfunction there. If you choose to stay, then you need to basically be the bad guy, and do everything totally by the book. 1. Tear up the medical forms that are forged. 2. Add an addendum to the summer camp forms to mention that some of the fees are coming out of the Scout camping account. Personally, I wouldn't hold that against a scout trying to get a campership. If anything, I would consider that to be a bonus, and a better reason to get a campership. 3. Stop the smoking in front of scouts. Start with asking them to put it away nicely. Tell them that if they need to smoke, they'd better get out of sight of the Scouts, and out of smelling distance of them as well. We have an ASM who smokes. He has "ASM moments" which is code to the adults that he's stepping away for a smoke. 4. Have them check into the real prices of the trailer. I can't imagine there would be that much of a savings on a troop sized trailer. 5. If a Parent wants to be a Scout Parent, so be it. That means they aren't Committee members or ASMs. They have no say in voting, etc. They can't sign off on requirements, etc. 6. At least initially, ask for license/reg/proof of insurance before trips. Have them sign a form, so you have it on record. 7. As you are the SM, you can quiz them on what you think are missed requirements for rank advancement. If you don't think they've done it, don't sign the Scout Spirit. (It's not in the Scout Spirit to be dishonest or to shirk requirements). You need to be strict and by the book. If you're not, they will eat you alive.