perdidochas

I've talked to my brother about it (Scout's father). He's an ASM in same Council as NYLT, and has had run-ins with the adult involved in the past. On hearing the story, my reaction was to take them down. That's hazing and is just wrong on so many levels. They don't want to do that.

Well, the first wasn't local. It was a nearby council. I do agree that 30 minutes of that would have made the point. In terms of the ASM, my youngest son, who is irritated by this man, is the new SPL. It will be interesting. I am an ASM, so it's not really my place to coach this man. After all, he's been to Philmont for training :-) as well as Wood Badge. The thing is, I know the boys. They are my boys' friends. I camp with them, and I've known some of them for 7 or 8 yrs. He dug his own hole with them. I agree with your assessment of him.

The adults were present. They agreed with it. That said, I do thing the NYLT is a abberration. Some of our boys went to a different NYLT, and had a much different experience.

WHen my boys were cub scouts, we did the disposable plastic knives cutting soap method. On reflection, based on the earlier discussion, I am pretty much now thinking that we should use real pocket knives with adult supervision to do the soap carvings.

I've been noticing the use of deception (aka lying) in training of Boy Scouts lately, and it disturbs me. Mostly it is done to heighten the tension of an activity, but, IMHO, in process, it turns off Scouts, and undermines the Scout Law (A Scout is Trustworthy). The first case is a Scout relative of mine who went to NYLT training in his home council. The first three days of it, the Scouts were berated, treated like dirt, and treated like they were in Marine boot camp circa Full Metal Jacket. My nephew's uniform patches were torn off. Then, the last few days, they were told that the experiences of the first days were wrong, and this is how you really should lead. In addition, they were told not to tell anyone about what happened. I can understand not telling other scouts about to experience it, but NO part of the BSA program should be kept secret from parents. Honestly, if I were his parents, heads would have rolled. The experience seemed very much against the values that I try to foster as an ASM. Also, it's been found educationally that teaching the wrong way to do things first isn't as effective as teaching the correct method first. In addition, it really began to turn my relative against the Scouting ideals. He felt wronged, not trained. The second case is an ASM in my troop. I will admit, I didn't quite feel this as strongly, but the violation wasn't as bad. However, it was still a case of lying. This ASM has gone to several adult trainings at Philmont (which he makes sure we know about every time he talks to the other ASMs or the Scouts). He was doing a team building activity. In this activity, he had the ruse of a "elaborate knot contest" that was being filmed so it could be "judged at Philmont." Of course it was just a setup, but it really struck my youngest son as being wrong. I will admit, I didn't see it that way at the time, but as an adult, I'm much less concrete in my thinking. However, most scouts still are. Educationally, this was not a good thing. My son is slowly starting to despise this man more and more, and it is starting to reflect on his attitude on scouting. Did I miss something? Is deception now a major part of scout training? The above ASM claimed he learned this idea at Philmont. Or am I just making mountains out of molehills? The thing is, I spend too much time trying to foster the Scout Law, that I really can't just kick out trustworthy.

We tell boys to carry a whistle for emergencies. I know in my time outdoors I've never used one. We tell them to carry compasses for emergencies. I've never used one excetp for training. There is no good argument against using reasonable sheath knives, that also doesn't preclude us from carrying emergency equipment.

I'm of two opinions about some of those badges. First, I hear my now Eagle talking about them, and he'd like to earn some for his palms.Second, Scouting should be about outings. I don't think the choice of merit badges is an important issue. I think a more important issue is the risk aversion of National, and the way that inhibits adventure. For example, a few months ago, we were camping by this little river, and I brought my two kayaks. We would shuttle the boys up two miles to a launch, and let boys without adult supervision kayak those two miles. I realize in hindsight that we broke the rules. However, I still feel the boys were safe. Every group had two kayaks (buddy boats) and every kayak had two boys. Myself and another adult made the first run, to kind of scout it out. All boys involved had their swimming merit badge (one on every trip had lifesaving MB), and I had personally seen them all swim in a troop done Swim test. Most were First Class and above. It was a good adventure, that IMHO, wouldn't have been as much of an adventure if two adults had been on every trip. In my short scout career in the 1970s, it wasn't uncommon for a group of boys led by senior boys to do things like that. I wish it were still that way.

Having watched my oldest son do his Eagle project, and talking to my brother about my nephew's Eagle project, I think there are a lot of things that are taught by the project. First, is dealing with bureaucracy--in my son's case, the troop bureaucracy, the church bureaucracy and the District bureaucracy. Second, dealing with adults outside of scouts at a totally different level. My son went to a parish council meeting, and presented his plans. This gave a 14 yr old the chance to basically deal with adults as an adult. He had to present his plan (and several alternatives) in front of about 20 adults, not all of who he knew personally. Third, the chance to lead on a fairly big project. My son built a walking Stations of the cross, which involved raising money, then building "bird house" type housings for 14 bas-relief depictions of the Passion of Jesus, and installing these on 6' 4x4 posts installed around the perimeter of the church. He led a group of 11-14 yr olds to do this, and did a great job. IMHO, the Eagle project is a way for teens to guide meaningful projects, which is something that no other area (outside of scouting) really encourages teens to do. I would reduce the number of merit badges before getting rid of the Eagle project.

Sheath knives like this would be great for general camping: http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-hunter-scalpel/p/RU-T914-10A/ http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-bird-and-trout/p/AGBThhh8A/ http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000751-Survival-Ultimate-Serrated/dp/B003R0LSMO http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-001683-Grylls-Paracord-Sheath/dp/B008FM04OC/ref=pd_sim_hi_33?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R8Q3NG6Q4XQ8BE59ZR3

Absolutely. I'm so glad taht the SM at the time convinced this WDL to be the Advancement Coordinator. It gave me the chance to transition from Cub Scout Leader to Boy Scout leader while still helping the troop.

SSt3rd, If a Scout (or Scouter) sees what they think is a silly rule, they should be trying to change it. I agree with resqman.

It says large sheath knives--IMHO, large sheath knives would be those that are above 6 inches in blade length. I would say to talk with the troop leadership and explain your thinking.

I'm not saying earn the Eagle as soon as possible. I'm saying get as much towards Eagle as you can when your time demands allow it. My oldest plays football, does track and field, plays in youth orchestra, is active in the OA. I'm glad he has finished his Eagle. My oldest son is now at a point where he misses Scouts when he can't attend a meeting (primarily due to youth orchestra meeting for 6 week periods in the fall and spring on the same night/time as scouts). He's going to become the LNT trainer for the Trooop, and is already the Troop life Guard. That said, he's going to have a much easier time at juggling than my younger son, who's about to start an International Baccalaureate program. I don't see how encouraging Eagle before high school is any worse (and it's probably better) than having Life Scouts that drop out for a few years, come back at 17 to Eagle and then leave. That is the general pattern I've seen with Boy Scouts.

Do they do this for all of the ranks? I would be surprised if they ever get eagles.

I was a Tiger Cub Den Leader, Bear Den leader and Webelos den leader. Not once did my boys have their named rank badge by B&G. I don't see the big deal. A few months makes no difference.

I think your best bet is to get an Assistant DL, and keep it to one den.

Sent, That's the plan. At this point in my life, I plan to stay as an ASM for a few years after my boys age out (have about 4 yrs with my youngest to age out). I contemplate starting a Venture crew, but may try to start out with a Venture patrol.

I don't even want to think about adding up Scouting costs...

I think "getting it over with" was probably the wrong term. I think start working on it is the better term. My observation is that Eagles who do their project as soon as they hit Life tend to stay more active in Scouts post Eagle--the ones who sit at Life for a while tend to leave when they Eagle. My son just Eagled, and he has grand plans of staying with the troop. Family Life, Personal Fitness adn Pers Management are easier if you do them at teh same time. It's not a bad thing. It's just easier to keep trackof. Twocub, do you have high school aged children? If not, then that explains why you don't believe in finishing Eagle before high school. There is a big dropoff in scouting among high school students--there's simply less available time. My advice, though, isn't finish Eagle before high school, but get as close to Eagle as possible before high school.

I've seen them as well. That said, while I may have my doubts about their ability to do lashings, the last couple of Eagles we've had do know how to camp.

The main problem of gay leaders will be perception, not actual abuse. Except for a few really liberal people, no one will want to send their son off to camp with an openly gay man. That said, if YPT is followed, there really is little risk of anything bad happening. My personal preference would be that it should be left up to the CO. If the CO doesn't mind gay leaders, they should be alowed to have gay leaders. If the CO doesn't want gay leaders , they should be allowed to exclude gay leaders

As part of that the average age of Eagle is also increasing. I think the percentage of Scouts who stay in Scouting has probably increased. I seem to remember that when I was a Scout, most of us only stayed in for a year or two.

He could have done it 4 months ago (if he had a project). As Eagle92 said, get the project over with ASAP. My son began working on his Eagle Project two weeks after getting Life. He met with the Parish Council with a preliminary proposal a month after getting Life. Now, it took 8 months (and a change in priests (a slowdown, both priests were in favor of project, but it took an extra month to sit down and talk to new priest)), but he completed his project two months before completing merit badges.

Troop is specifically Boy Scouts. Unit can be Sea Scout, Venture Scout or Boy Scout.

You're a sub. No offense, but the kids don't react anywhere close to normal with a sub. There is no delayed reward if they perform for you. There can be instant gratification, but you wouldn't like that, as it would involve misbehavior. I don't understand your reverence for the encyclopedia vs. wikipedia. Most studies have shown that they are about equally accurate (on non-controversial subject matter). In terms of instant reward vs. delayed gratification, we need both. Our boys need both. Some things should be recognized instantly, others can be delayed and others shoudl be delayed.