perdidochas

Well, then you were definitely doing the right thing. IMHO, the adult was out of line. As SPL, you are supposed to be guiding the Scouts. Ideally, the PLs would address that, but if they aren't, the SPL should. If I were the ASM, I'd be commending you.

I will admit, I, personally, am not a big fan of camporees, but if the boys want to go, of course it should be counted as a campout. Heck, if a single boy wanted to go as a provisional with another troop, it would be counted as a campout for him.

Why wouldn't it be? As long as it's camping.

IMHO, if they set up tents and slept in them, it counts. It's lame, but it fulfills the letter of the camping requirement.

No, as the boys have never camped there.

That's different than what you said earlier. As other posters have noted, there are a variety of ways to do your duty to God. It doesn't have to involved organized religious practice (although, I would argue that is probably the easiest and most effective way). I based my harsh reaction on you saying you have no duty to God (which based on your reactions, isn't exactly how you really feel). That said, you need to think about your duty to God and how you do it. This should probably be an ongoing thing throughout your life.

Actually, that's exactly what you wrote: "I do not have a duty to God, " So, what are you going to do to make yourself a better Scout and start doing your "duty to God" as you've been promising for years.

I disagree. I think a lifeguard entry is jumping feet first into water over the head, and that it is an abrupt entry into deep water. It is not walking in from shallow water, not easing in, not coming down a ladder, and not pushing off from bottom or gaining forward momentum by diving. It meets the requirement, IMHO. That said, having done the lifeguard entry, it's much harder than a conventional entry, and I really doubt a scared swimmer could accomplish it. 1. Jump feet first into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming..." The swimmer must be able to make an abrupt entry into deep water and begin swimming without any aids. Walking in from shallow water, easing in from the edge or down a ladder, pushing off from side or bottom, or gaining forward momentum by diving do not satisfy this requirement." BSA, Safe Swim Defense (2017)

Is the problem in natural water or pool or both? We had a boy that would not jump into natural water (pond or lake), but we eventually got him to pass the swim test in a pool. One idea is to have him practice with life jacket or face mask, and then get him to do it at least once without it.

That's a different thing than what I understood in your earlier post--you didn't define "Moms and Dads" as helicopter parents. I'm all for not allowing parents to interfere. However, I don't think of attending a meeting quietly as interfering. That, and IMHO, one of the most important jobs of adult leaders is to keep parents from interfering.

I misunderstood what you had meant. The thing is, in our Troop, everybody that attends pays. Adult leaders pay to camp (and pay for the troop fuel costs which are reimbursed to the drivers), just like the boys (and we view parents as adult leaders when they go on the campouts). I would have felt free to watch my sons' OA ordeals, provided I didn't interfere with them or interact with them. I chose not to, but wouldn't have liked it if forbidden to, by the adults involved.

Sometimes you do what you have to do. If the choice is the leader's daughter at a campout or no campout at all, that's a no brainer. A less than perfect campout is better than no campout.

Again, if I were a parent in your troop, I'd be contacting the Council. All Scouting activities are to be open to parents. That said, I agree 100% about leaving the Scouts alone, and as an ASM, I'd much rather have the parents sharing a table and campsite with me, than off where it would be easier for them to interfere with the kids. If I'm around, I can distract them, and help enforce the rules, like Scouts not entering the adult campsite without permission, etc.

If you had tried to stop me, as a parent, from going to a meeting or any other event, the council would be receiving a YPT violation report from me. That said, parents should be seen and not heard at a troop meeting (unless specifically called upon or if they are troop leaders).

No offense, but you need to resign Boy Scouts today. You've been making the promise below since you started BSA, which is at least 2 years ago if you are a Life Scout. On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country And to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. Now, I realize why the new requirements make you nervous.

Why would the young men have to close their chests, just because the young women do? We currently don't require that for mixed gender swimming at scout camps. That, my sons' lodge has the ceremonies teams with shirts on anyways.

I would personally say that a Camporee is probably the best situation to bring along a Tiger, as long as there is a parent not the leader to watch him. As long as there's a 300' separation between Scouts and Leaders, what does it matter. I know in my boys' troop, the Scouts couldn't come to the leader's campsite without permission. There was an unmarked line, about 20 feet from our kitchen that the boys had to ask permission to cross.

Our older boys often sleep under the stars just for giggles (on clear nights). My oldest experimented with a tarp one weekend. It was a really windy night on a beach pseudo-backpacking trip. Once he figured out the best way to set it up, he had less troubles than the boys in tents. That said, he was either a Life or Eagle at the time.

Sounds like a good idea. I was thinking at first that it was wasteful, but it would only take once per parent (I would hope) to get the point across. The only problem is if the boy has the same name as the father.

Cool, I'd like to get my Eagle in my 50s. I will be an excellent SPL......

My general observation is that the parents are roughest on their own kids, at least in soccer and lacrosse. I would sometimes cringe at how they would tear their kids down from the sidelines.

Our troop had a Blackhawk type leader--he was a grandfather of one of our scouts and had been a Scoutmaster in the past. He helicoptered all the first year Scouts at Summer camp. The other 4 of us were more mellow.

What does it really matter? You only have one page, and the change in requirement is only in description, not the absolute requirement. It's the same number of requrirements as before. There is no real need for you to have the extra piece of paper. Get a copy of your Eagle Application for that. The decision to change requirements was made in 2015. 2016 was the transition year, and 2017 required you to do the new requirements. In term of the younger scouts, the best thing, IMHO, is to get a book like this: http://www.scoutstuff.org/book-bs-requirements-2017.html#.We_Ag1WnFOg IIRC, it has pages like the Scout Handbook. My real question for you is about your Duty to God. What are you doing for your Duty to God?

I like the above, however, it should be specified that camping is either a night in a tent you helped put up (with the exception of summer camp), or under the stars. I do agree that camping under the auspices of different groups should count, and 50 nights (30 nights in addition to Camping Merit badge) would probably be adequate. It would definitely be better than the current system. I believe that a Scout learns more about being a Scout in a weekend than in 6 months of meetings.

Well, we had one that only had 20 nights of camping, with the exception of extra summer camps. I would never require a boy to do that if it wasn't National's requirements, that was just one of my theoretical musings of what I would do if I were rewriting Eagle requirements for National. The musings being based on my observation of Scouts.