perdidochas

One tip, have the Scouts converse with you on the trip. I've found keeping my mind active with something besides driving tends to keep me awake better.

Could be sleep apnea. Do most of you snore?

While not a routine thing at pack meetings, last year my Web IIs sang "On top of Spaghetti" at a pack meeting (as part of the showman activity badge). Just try it at the next pack meeting. You might like it.

Stosh wrote: Why can't I just sit with my feet in the stream a bit longer and watch the birds nearby? Why can't I eat nettles or cattails? Why can't I use a hand ax to build my fire? Why do the adults have to drag themselves along in herds? Shortridge wrote: Where do you find these written as rules? My response. The first is not usually allowed due to campouts having an agenda. The second and third violate "Leave no trace." The fourth is a consequence of YPT. If adults are there, they are in a herd (well at least a duo).

Stosh, Good points. I do agree that the adventure has been mostly taken out of Scouting. We are having this same issue in our own troop, and sometimes get to the point where advancement is more important than fun. Well, without fun, we aren't going to have many scouts for long.

Radfordjr, The complaint form is to become a leader yourself.

Well, May seems a little late for a crossover. Most troops would like the crossover in March or April, so that the new Scouts can go on at least one campout with the troop as a scout before summer camp. 1. Yes, AOL is not the same as crossover. 2. Crossover isn't part of AOL. Crossover is after AOL. Have an AOL ceremony, and then have the crossover whenever they want.

Stosh, I understand the point, but I think the best analogy is to rec sports. In the rec soccer league my sons play in, the number of players decreases every age level. By U-14, we have gone from the 12 teams of U-6 to 2 teams. Part of being young is figuring out what you like and what you don't like. Scouting is no different. Also, a lot of us who aren't Eagles got something out of even two years of Scouts. I'm a 2yr scout veteran, who made Tenderfoot and earned a single merit badge. Scouting still aided me. It taught me the basis of most of my camping skills.

Radford, I sympathize with you. You are dealing with what my wife encountered teaching at a private school a few years ago--the Private school carpool conversations. Everybody at the private school knows about what a horrible den leader you are (according to them), and they are probably worked up in rage when your name comes up. When you talk to them, it will be as if everything is ok. Just go on to be cubmaster, and don't worry about them.

Rockford, A lot of the reason that veteran scouters sometimes put down the training is because that is the reality of the situation. Most of us don't learn anything, because the training is not rigorous enough. (YPT being the exception, IMHO).

First of all, I'll preface this with the fact that I am fully trained as a Tiger Cub Den Leader, a Webelos Den Leader (including both BALOO and OWL) and a Troop Committee member. That said, I do understand people that complain about the training requirements. It's a lot to do. Also, to be totally honest, outside of YPT, I really didn't feel I learned much new material in all of the training that I have done. Being a Scout leader (to some degree) is self-selecting. It's rare that people without a background in the outdoors even attempt being a Scout Leader.

I think that the Advancement chair is taking too much on, if it takes that long. If I tripled the boys in our troop, we'd have one your troops size. If I conversely triple the time it takes to do my job, that would be 4 1/2 hrs per week (except for COH time), instead of the current 1 1/2 hrs per week. Does the Troop Scribe help any? I'm Advancement chair, and the only manual entry I do is when I date/initial blue cards after I put the info into Troopmaster. I don't fill out blue cards, I just date and initial them, and put the info into TM. In terms of other advancement, I enter whatever info that the Scout has in their book. I do admit, I have the luxury of a 5 yr old laptop with Troopmaster installed, and I do all the entries during the Troop meeting every week. We also have a portable printer.

The other part to domes vs. pup tents, is that dome tents have more usable headroom than do pup tents. Pup tents usually have a high spot in the middle, and rapidly sloping sides. Dome tents have a more circular high spot, making for more headroom for the same height/floor size than the pup tent. That is why pup tents are disappearing from the market.

Scout sized dome tents (usually "3 person") are simple to set up. Usually just two fiberglass or aluminum poles that criss-cross in the center (after going through sleeves) and then hooking to the four corners of the tent (either a grommet or a peg). Then a rainfly over the top. Pup tents are just not considered as practical. Try to find one in an outdoor catalog. You will find probably 8 or 10 dome tents for every pup tent. I remember the old pup tent from my scouting days. IMHO, they are much inferior to dome tents, as they can be taken down by a single rope slipping (and I can remember having my tent collapsed on me by a rival patrol).

What size troop do you have that the Advancement Chair works 10-15 (up to 30-40) hrs per week? Are they at all automated? (i.e. Troopmaster or similar program) If not, they should think about it. Troopmaster makes things a lot more convenient and faster, IMHO. I'm Advancement chair for a troop of about 30 scouts (give or take). Besides COH and a monthly advancement report (which take a few hours each), I don't spend time outside of the weekly 1 1/2 hr Troop meeting (and monthly committee meeting).

"Altho it is no longer a FC rank requirement, find the North Star and talk about navigation. " While the North Star isn't a specific requirement, night navigation without a compass is. "1. Demonstrate how to find directions during the day and at night without using a compass."

""By the way, perdidochas, I almost actually fell off my chair when I read your post. I just became advancement chair, and that's why I do it too. For the power." and the cool uniform, too. admit it! " Nah, I just do it for the power. I already had the uniform as a WDL (and Bear Leader and Tiger Cub Leader before that).

I'm advancement chair of my troop. I don't do it for the boys. I do it for the power...... I helped out the advancement chair of the Pack. The troop advancement chair job is much easier. I like the position, partly because I get to talk with most of the Scouts.

Arrow of Light doesn't equal crossover. I think we (and I was guilty of it last year) need to stop making single ceremonies for AOL and crossing over. They are two different events.

I think the best option is for you as cubmaster to provide leader contact info to everybody. Then have each den leader provide a contact list to the den. I usually ask if people mind if their contact info is provided to others. Usually it's no big deal, but sometimes, especially in the case of divorced parents, things get more complicated.

We've found it helpful to have two Feller Cake Bakes a year. We have one in January (Web II and Wolves), and one in April (Web I, Bears and Tiger cubs). That keeps the time down. ANother thing is that obviously parent made cakes don't get prizes.

Sounds like a good way to irritate a volunteer into quitting. Unless your pack has a supply of extra den leaders, I think fixing the problem by education of the DLs is better than measuring them.

Here is a link to physical fitness standards. http://www.presidentschallenge.org/tools-resources/docs/getfit.pdf The 1985 standards were 2 pullups at 11 yrd old was equivalent to 50 percentile. They were validated in 1994. Therefore, this isn't a 2010 problem. The standards were created in 1985.

Looks like Record Trax has a lot of what you want. My pack (and troop) use Packmaster and Troopmaster. The great thing is that they make really nice advancement reports so you don't have to manually fill out the 4403 advancement form. You can also transfer from one to the next. Packmaster is $70 for the first three years. After that, it's $49.95 for renewal for three years.

If Kathy gets registered as an ADL, I don't see the problem. Nothing that a WDL signs off is rocket science (and I'm a 3rd yr WDL).