ParkMan

I'd love them to have a more visible uniform too. However, when I think of the cub scouts so often we end up in our "class B" uniforms - a pack t-shirt and whatever shorts you want. I like that the girls start off with their class b's all the time and then have a vest they put on over that. So as much as I like uniforms, I have to admit I find merit in what the GS do.

My daughter is a Brownie right now (GS equivalent of Wolf/Bear). She routinely wears some kind of GS t-shirt or in more formal settings the tan pants/white shirt. On top of that is usually her Brownie vest. I find that the GS clothes + vest are not quite a obvious as the CS uniform. Yet, my daughter's Brownie vest has the same number, if not more, patches than my son's CS uniform.

Since you can never have too much free advice... As CC, you should explain the role to the guy: - what an ASM does - what they troop's expectations are (taking on a role, attendance at meetings, uniforming, etc...) If the guy balks at some of this, invite him to be a committee member instead. You can always say - "an ASM is a more active position with higher levels of involvement, but a MC is a great way to get yourself involved and work into the ASM role at the right time" But, if the guy looks OK to you, you tell him that him "an ASM is part of the SM's team. Before we get you signed up, we need to have you guys chat and see if there is a good role for you on the team that you'd like to do." Then the SM can have the ultimate say.

Hey FScouter, Not sure if your post was in response to mine, but if so - I think we're on the same page. In my unit, all the adults are friends, so having one adult say to another "Hey Bob - did you know that technically you shouldn't be wearing a patrol patch?" is certainly a fine thing to do. But, in a more formal sense, I think the COR (and as you say, other adult members) shouldn't take it upon themselves to be directly policing the actions of the adult leaders. Yet, it is entirely appropriate for the COR to mention to the SM, "I notice your leaders are not wearing the uniform correctly", or perhaps "our chartered organization believes wearing the uniform correctly is pretty important, can you mind working with the leaders to take the non-official patches off?"

I love the analogies! As a CM, I think dg98adams AF analogy is pretty close to my world. However, the one caution I have with the military analogies is that it implies a reporting order or chain of command. I don't feel that I report to the CC - but instead that the CC is my partner in the operation of the pack. Sure, the CM technically reports to the Pack Committe and the CC is that chair of the committee, but I don't see it as the CC is the CM's "boss". I see so many posts on the forum suggesting this reporting structure, but I think it's really unnecessary. I liked the AF analogy because as a passenger (aka cub scout), I see the CM as the guy running the show - he sets the tone, the plans the calender, he sets the goals. The CC has the role of making sure the operational side of the pack works. So basically, a CM without a CC is thinking up fun stuff to do, but has no support to get it done. A CC without a CM has a whole bunch of folks with nothing to do. Lastly, the CC needs to become the "best friend" of the CM. I can call our pack's CC anytime and we're constantly working to make sure we're on the same page.

Does anyone simply ask for 3 events and allow for boys to do two one month, but then miss a month? i.e., attend two in June, miss July, but then attend again in August.

ChaiAdventure wrote: not to start a new argument...but is it really the role of the COR to act as the uniform police for the unit?? having looked at the BSA guidelines for a COR, I could find nothing remotely close to that duty.... I had the same thought reading the thread. A couple of thoughts come to mind. First - that's fantastic that someones got a COR that's involved enough to care Second - that seems more like a discussion between a COR & a SM to me. Seems like the SM should decide what he/she wants and then chat w/ the COR next time they're having an adult beverage together.

As a parent of a rising Webelos, I don't really like the CS law, but I do like that it is different at the cub level. That way when I get to Webelos and begin preparing the boys, it gives us something to focus on. The oath/promise I'd be fine with combining. If you look at the two, you have: Cub Scout: I, (say your name), promise to DO MY BEST To do my DUTY to GOD And my Country To HELP other people, and To OBEY the LAW of the Pack Boy Scout: On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. If you go through it line by line, they are not all that different until the last line in the Boy Scout version.

Pardon my resurrecting such an old thread... I wanted to recheck on the overlap the term of service for the Unit Leader Award of Merit w/ the Cubmaster knot (the soon to be replaced knot). Is this still the case? Also, anyone have any insight with the new (reintroduced) Cubmaster Key? Thanks!

In his post, Barry mentioned that the cub program should be 3 years. Perhaps one thing to do is anticipate that most den leaders retire when you get to Webelos. At that point, you have a quiet discussion with the den leader and ask - "Do you really want to continue to do this?" Unless it's yes, you look around for a new den leader that starts fresh as the boys move to Webelos.

Congrats on finishing the ticket! My only advice is don't feel the need to rush. I delayed my beading by a few months to find an appropriate ceremony. In hindsight, I'm glad I did.

Thanks. I don't think I've actually seen anyone with the award of merit yet - but I could imagine what you mean. It does sort of have this unusual progression now. Unit Leader Award of Merit - 18 months Scouter's Training Award for Cub Scouts - 2 years Cubmaster Key - 3 years I'm thinking one could receive these for concurrent service.

Right - so I gather it is still in place for Cubmasters even with the new change.

Just curious - anyone know if there a change to the Unit Leader Award of Merit? Pardon if I missed it somewhere else. Thanks!

Ditto. The best roundtable discussions I've had were the ones that dealt with the planning questions - i.e., how do packs plan a summer program, how do packs plan a pack meeting, how do packs plan a campout. We mostly just discuss with each other what we're doing. It give me ideas as well as a sounding board of other excited scouters. I don't care how long the announcements last. I'll deal with them.

I think this discussion has really gone two different directions. 1. chain of command - sure the CM/SM reports to the committee (fred8033's links), but that does not mean he reports to the committee chair. The chair is the person that organizes the committee, not the committee - well at least hopefully not the committee. At the CC/CM/SM/COR level, it should really be all about relationships anyways. 2. most important - I was prepared to say you need both a good CM/SM & a good CC. However, the truth is that the right CM/SM & weak CC supported by good unit leaders can run a really good unit. A good CC and weak CM/SM supported by good leaders is much less effective. So, that would get my vote. Of course, in an ideal world you have both.

Should there be an age requirement to Eagle? If the Eagle age requirement were 16, then you could measure that a boy achieved some percentage attendance over the course of his scouting experience. That would then help eliminate cases like this - a boy could not just disappear for 4 years and still meet the attendance requirement. It also would eliminate the cases where a 14 year old earns Eagle to never be seen again. However, there is no age requirement - and as such, I agree with others. As long as a boy fulfills the minimal requirements, we can't prevent him from earning it - no matter how uncomfortable it may seem.

I don't see the harm in letting the boys choose what they work on over the summer. At the cub level, I want the boys excited about scouting. So, whether it's adding any arrow point or two from Wolf over the summer or getting an early start at Bear, I don't see a harm in going either way. I think even a little of both is OK - because at least they are working on something scouting related and presumably having fun! Just my .02.

I see your points. Yep - I agree - pack activities are not mandatory. I'm thinking there is a balance somewhere between having a small number of activities that you try to get everyone to attend and having a large number of activities that fewer people attend. I think we've been more of the first one - a fewer number of activities and then working to get high attendance. As I look to the next year, I was thinking it would be good to add a few more activities to give folks a broader choice of activities. I also agree that planning is a joint activity. We'll have a planning meeting over the summer where we'll work a lot of this out. As CM, I was just doing a bit of advance planning so that we'd have a framework to discuss. I'm also trying to get a good feel for how much advance planning to do vs. how much just comes naturally from discussion in the planning meeting.

Thanks all for the suggestions! I'm heading into annual planning now - this is all very helpful. My goal was to perhaps find the sweat spot - enough activities that we've got some excitement and energy going. Yet, not so much that it impacts the den's own activities or wears out families.

I'm working on our pack's plan for the fall. I'm thinking about how many pack activities to plan for so that you have enough pack activities, but also leave time for the dens to do things on their own. Too many pack activities and you either don't leave time for dens to plan activities - you can also lead to burnout of parents & leaders. Too few pack activities and you end up with the opposite. What have people found that works well?

This discussion reminds me of what happens in my office. With the abundance of wireless internet, people in my profession always bring their laptops to meetings. Then they proceed to leave them open during meetings - checking emails, surfing the web, etc... Focus on the meeting at hand suffers - you get lots of "what did you just say" or "are you talking to me". Every once in a while a strong willed leader takes command of the room and asks everyone to close their laptops. Most people listen. I find this situation very similar. If boys have ipods, but have not learned when they should/should not use them, then you have the same problems such as lack of attention & stuff not getting done. So, I'm all for the boys having them along so that they can learn when to, and when not to, use them. These devices are so common that we're probably doing the boys some good by enabling them to learn how to appropriately use them. Just my .02

Thank you again all! In fact, this took me in a different direction than I'd originally thought and now I'm off looking for paracord for a Webelos den as well as myself. Thanks!

Thanks! I'll just go with what feels natural. As I see so few leader's in neckerchief's, I wasn't sure if there was a convention. It sounds like probably not.

Thanks all - I really appreciate the feedback. I'd not thought about a generic scout slide. I've been through WB and recall making the red woggle. I've been to the fabric store looking for similar cord to use, but did not see anything. Any suggestions on where you can find it? Stosh's reply has me thinking about making one for me and some cool ones for the boys in my dens. Thanks!