ParkMan

I look at this a bit differently. I think Boy Scout leaders are way too overworked today. We keep adding more things for them to do, piling on even more training isn't going to make things better. Trying to get some ASM to prove he knows camping skills isn't going to create scouts more in the classic model. If you want troops to create more "classic scouts", you need to really organize troops in that model. We think "train a Scoutmaster and get him going" is the answer - it isn't. I know so many long time Scoutmasters who ignore large portions of the program because "they know better". The ASMs in my son's troop don't teach scouting skills as much as they could because the culture of doing that isn't there. Culture comes from the top - Scoutmasters/Committee Chairs/Troop Committees. Get them to better understand how to implement the program and you'll see outdoor skills improve. Simply doing more training of scout skills for ASMs isn't enough.

Thanks so much for the very detailed answer! I've been involved in the troop for about four years now, but was not aware of much of what you wrote. I've been on a three year saga to encourage the troop to leverage patrols. Our troop has been pretending to use patrols, but really has not. This helps me to understand that we're probably more typical than I realized.

There's STEM scouts and there's having a STEM program in the troop. I knowould of our economy STEM Scouts group in the district. A,few packs and troops have some kind of STEM program. In our troop on 70, we have hlaf a dozen scouts pursuing the STEM awards.

How do you think the BSA has been neglecting youth leadership? I'm curious

I agree to letting the scout manage this as much as possible. Learning to follow up on things like this is a good life skill. That said - I'm a believer that sometimes we all need a little helping hand. So, what we do: - our advancement coordinator records the partials in Troopmaster. It's really not that much work. He gets an email listing the partials and then takes 10 minutes to update them. If he stays current, it's not a big deal. - the scouts are provided paper copies of their advancement records - including partials - once a year or so. - a couple of times a year we schedule a merit badge catch up night. Merit Badge counselors for some of the more common merit badges are at a troop meeting. Scouts get a copy of their partials and have the opportunity to go and talk with the counselors. They can chose to talk to them or not.

But it would remove one of the most compelling arguments - the inability of girls to access the program.

Why not just have the BSA start a Girl Scout division that follows the same program as the Boy Scouts? Then girls could earn the same badges as the boys - including Eagle.

We had a similar role too. It's interesting to me how the different courses approach things. Our AV person did a TON of work. He had to manage mulitiple projectors/screens, a sound system, multiple wireless and wired microphones. He had to do sound checks for all presenters. Some microphones were good for some presenters, but not others. He checked every presentation - many of which had embedded media. He figured out background music at key points - which really helped with the atmosphere. A very important role! In fact, in our course, it's a role you worked up to. It took at least three courses to work up to it.

Would something like this be a council decision? National perhaps isn't requiring then, but councils can continue to do so?

Congrats! I think I learned more being a staffer than I did participating in the course. It was a true highlight of my time as a Scouter. Enjoy!!!

But, it's very true. Both the CS pack & BS troop we've been involved with have been strong enough that the district doesn't add much to the equation. It took me a few years to figure this one out. I've come to understand that the district is really a peer organization to the units. The district provides support to the units, but they are not the "boss" of the units. Don't like what the DE tells you - just ignore him. The unit belongs to the CO - end of story. Your status as a volunteer rests with the institutional head (and by extension the COR). Sure - in extreme cases, the Council could revoke your membership. But, in reality no council is going to run around pulling Scouter's memberships because they ignored the DE. It's not worth the SE's time. But, the last thing I'd do is fight with the DE. If your motivation is getting the district to help your unit - I wouldn't bother. Just focus your energy on your unit.

Ok - I'll admit to being amused if someone has indeed pranked the councils here.

In our troop, we maintain a list much like what Col. Flagg describes. Yes, as a result, we end up getting all our merit badges counselled in-house, but it works well. Trying to navigate a district list is an unnecessary hassle. If there was really interest in making this work in districts, the BSA would do: - encourage every troop to identify a merit badge coordinator. - have the troop merit badge coordinator manage the list of counsellors from their troop families. - have the district advancement chair work with the troop merit badge coordinators to assemble a consolidated list from amongst the troops in the district.

Plan it well ahead of time, get the families to make a commitment, and then purchase tickets when they become available. Don't try to guess how many.

But a good troop should be able to absorb and train less experienced adults. Senior leaders should have had the knowledge of how to plan for adventure passed down to them. They in turn pass it along to the next folks. My troop is somewhere in the middle. The biggest problem we seem to have are adults stuck doing the same trips over and over again .

In my neck of the woods, Troops are very different. If my son's troop had a weak program, I would have no problems moving to another troop. I think a lot of scouts would benefit from moving troops after the first year. In your case, I won recommend finding a role that could bring about some of the changes you'd like to see. Show others your ideas working and it's easier to get others to go along. I'm the CC of a troop of about 70 boys. Our use of patrols is poor. I get lots of people willing me things are broken and how to fix it. The reality is that if I knew how to fix it, I would have already. I wouldn't sweat that you are newer. You don't need to be the SM, takingon a smaller role where you could impact things is a big part of starring the process of change.

I've been both a CM and Pack CC. I'm a troop CC today. One thing I've learned in this time is that a good CM/CC relationship is important. If those two people are not working together, problems occur. It seems like I'm talking with or emailing the CM (or in my case SM today) 3-4 times a week. We're constantly in contact. Do we always agree - nope. Do I probably micromanage in some places - I'm sure I do. However, I know what's important to the CM/SM and he knows what's important to me. Reading your post, it sounds like that might not be happening here. If things are really bad, then go have a friendly drink with the CC and find out what's up. Why is the CC doing this? My guess is that it is either: 1- the CC has a view of how she thinks things should work and you're not in line with that 2- the CC is hearing complaints from some families and is trying to deal with it 3- the CC really is a power hungry volunteer. Though I listed #3, I'd be a bit surprised if that's the case. Sure it happens, but I don't think it's usually the case. More likely, it's #1 or #2 and the CC is trying to "correct" something. Now, it's entirely possible the CC is trying to correct something that's not broken. But if you and she are at odds, then she isn't talking with you about it and can't really understand what you're trying to do.

I don't mind council donations. The council provides services that my pack & troop take advantage of. I see my council donation as providing for scouting as a movement. On top of that, I regularly benefit from having a district executive and I know those donations in part pay his salary. I'm happy to contribute to that. However, I know that others disagree with me on payments to council- which is fine too. I'm also fine with the military donations myself. The only point I had before was that a pack should not need to justify their fundraising by saying "a part will go to the troops." If a unit feels that they need to do that, I would suggest that they don't need to do that. That this particular unit wants to do it and made a deliberate choice to do that is fine by me.

While I applaud the intent, I too think they're perfectly fine to take all the donations and spend it on the program. People give money to the scouts to give money to the scouts. If I were a visitor to that unit, I'd tell the adults that don't need to feel pressure to turn over donations like that. Sometimes these things happen because a well meaning adult has an idea like this and people don't want to argue against it. But, if this is something the unit really wants to do - it's fine. Part of the program is teaching the scouts how to make good choices. If the scouts see that 10% (or whatever donations are) of Popcorn money is turned around and forwarded to the troops, there is value to that for the scouts.

When I think of thrifty, I think of this. Today the monthly camping trip is usually at least $30 a pop. We use a formula of $5 per scout per meal plus overhead for fees & gas. When my son shops, he never thinks about saving money. It's mom who teaches him about smart shopping. Her meals come in closer to $3 a person. I'd almost rather he learn the lesson my wife teaches him than about fundraising.

I agree. I'd recommend spending your time getting the new volunteers ready for the transition. Be ready to hit the ground running. Once you all take over, run a quality program and have a great pack.

When I was a scout, you could earn 4 merit badges at summer camp. Now, our troop has boys come home with 6. I told my son to just sign up for 4 - have some free time to just have fun. Different boys have different priorities and interests. Some like lots of merit badges. Some like to just hang out. Others want some kind of adventure and doing something. The challenge of summer camps ought to be how they can appeal to the different kinds of boys out there.

A trip to Disney World is discretionary? Somehow I missed that note Like many things, I think this is really a question of where you are as a troop. If you've got a world class, boy led troop, then yes - having the boys lead and execute a fundraising campaign sounds great. They learn a new skill, get to show some leadership, get to apply some elbow grease to making their dreams a reality. But, if your troop isn't quite there yet, then I think I'd be perfectly fine with having this be adult led. For example - my son's in a good troop, but it's got a long way to go to being truly boy led. More often than not, I'm underwhelmed with what adults challenge the scouts do for the program parts of scouting. So, I'd rather have us focus on getting the boys to be stronger troop leaders than worrying about organizing fundraising. Participating in fundraising has a lower bar. If you've got a couple of fundraising activities/events - having scouts participate in those seems fine. If they're helping at an event, it's like a service project that benefits the troop. If they're selling a few items (ex. popcorn) getting a scout to sell a few items builds some skills. I'd just watch the level of effort here. Spending 2 months focusing largely on popcorn can be a distraction from building program. If you're troop is humming, then no big sweat. If it's like many of ours, then I think those 2 months could be better spent.

I look at the question of surplus as really separate from the question of program. Plan the program you want and then find a way to pay for it that lets you not have to worry too much about the financials. For example - as a troop, we follow a pay as you go model. If a scout wants to go on a camping trip, he contributes the cost towards that event. Some camping trips we come out ahead, sometimes we have a loss. In the end it works out. Our annual dues are modest. We purchase badges and other fixed costs from the dues. We have scholarships for those who cannot afford it. This makes it easier for us. We don't have to make a large budget work out. We don't get to February and say "no more trips, we're out of money".

We have a pretty healthy bank account. We keep it that way so that we have the ability to respond when needed. Generally, our priorities are: - have emergency funds available should sometihng happen. i.e., if we've got the Troop at Philmont and we need to get some people home quickly, we can. - pay upfront fees for trips. - purchase/upkeep equipment as needed If you tried to build up a balance quickly, then I'd agree - it would impact the current program. But, when you add a bit to the account every year, it eventually gets there. Our approach is to run cash positive every year and let it build up incrementally.