ParkMan

I think it's an exciting day. Like it or not, this is a historic moment in the program. We all have a front seat role for this.

My understanding is that they have no authority over the troop in this regards. Your troop is a separate entity that simply pats an annual fee for the ability to provide the Boy Scout program to its members. They can't force you to pay more money like this. They can certainly try to persuade you to do so as part of the council community - but that's different. The persuasion may feel like you're being made to do it - but it's just persuasion.

As I see it, the UC is a trusted advisor to the troop's adult leadership - particularly the key three. In this case, I think you need to find a way to engage with the SM & CC to let them know what you heard from the SPL, what you see in terms of the upcoming growth, and a recommended solution. Put differently - I think you could find a way for the unit to function a bit better by going around the SM. However, the real improvement is in getting the SM & other adult leaders on board with the real changes that need to happen. Doing that is hard - but some quick thoughts: 1. Start with the SM & CC. The SM because you need to get him aligned around the larger prize. The CC because he's got the ability organizationally to help align other adults. 2. Think of here is the phrase "strive to create a positive present rather than focus on a negative past". The point here isn't that the SM is doing something wrong or needs to let go. Instead, there's an opportunity here build for the future. From what you see coming up, the troop needs to support a larger structure. The SPL indicates he is ready to take on a larger role. So - here's the opportunity to take a step in that direction. 3. There is probably a reason the SM is this hands on. Figure that reason out. I doubt it's because he's just relishes control. I'm guessing that as a fairly new SM, he's trying to accomplish something Figure out that reason - and then help guide the SM to a way to accomplish that through the SPL.

I really enjoyed my BALOO course It was the best Cub Scout training I've seen. I don't see the need for and overnight. In a typical pack, the person organizing the pack campout will have been around for a while. They'll know the basics of camping. It will be unusual for the organizer to have never camped. The old material felt like the right mix. It reviewed/taught a few basics, covered of basics on planning, and shared some best practices.

Hi StevenB, I've been thinking about your troop over the past few days. Sorry in advance if this seems a bit preachy! I just keep thinking about what I'd do in your shoes and this is what comes to mind. What it comes down to me is that there are basically five key traits that I think a troop or pack needs to grow. - a fun program. You need something that keeps the boys wanting to participate and talk to their friends about it. My bet is you're OK on this one - but not all troops & packs are. - a sense of friendship among the boys. Scouts needs friends in the troop - or they lose interest. Again, I bet you're doing this now. - a well organized program. You need the parents to understand what you're doing & when so they can encourage their son's to participate. - a good new scout recruiting program. You need a system that makes it easy to include new scouts - effective adult recruiting. You've got to have more than a few people involved. If I were in your situation, I think I'd get my volunteers together and come up with an achievable plan to make those five things above a reality. I'd pick a couple of items in each category and do them each year. For example, I'd do: - a fun program. I'd plan a fall event & a spring event that are really a blast. Perhaps a really good fall pack campout. - a sense of friendship among the boys. Plan some less formal, but fun events. - a well organized program. I'd plan out my entire year and write it down. Send it out to families and say "this is what we're doing this year". This helps adult feel comfortable volunteering when they know the plan. - a good new scout recruiting program. I'd set a goal of 10 new scouts in the troop and another 10 in the pack. Think through how to really go do this, and then do it. - effective adult recruiting. This sounds like your toughest problem, but perhaps also the most important. Again, I'd set specific goals of what you want to recruit this year. i.e., a den leader for every den, a Cubmaster. Then, figure out how to really do that. Ultimately though, the best way is the direct ask. The BSA has some new online training that might help you through a process to do this. Anyways - this is how I'd approach your scenario if I found myself there. In a way, it's what we do every month at our committee meetings. In our case, we don't have an immediate problem to fix - but most every decision gets looked in light of these goals. In your case - you have two units to fix. Me, I'd invest some time to shore up the pack adults. That would then give you more time to focus on the troop.

If I had a dollar for every time I asked for a parents or leaders to volunteer for a position! My suggestion would be - think about those parents you know already in the den. Pick the three you think would do a good job. Then ask them each directly. Don't ask them if they'd like to be the den leader, but ask them if they can take it on. Also - don't be afraid to ask someone you li me several times. Somewhere I heard a statistic that the average volunteer will day no 3 times before they say yes. I like this approach because it helps you find the best person for a role, not just whoever is willing to volunteer.

Does anyone know why national stopped using it as a national base? Waa it just low attendance or is there some interesting history here.

I was the Cubmaster & Committee Chair of a pack that has a long history of successful recruiting. What I learned from that was we needed to have a goal, a plan, and to have everyone on board with it. Our goal was two new Tiger dens every year - or about 15 new Tigers. Things we did: - two open houses every spring & fall. - fliers to school classrooms every spring and fall - attendance at community events like open houses, school festivals, etc. - a packwide publicity drive for scouts to invite their friends. We printed invitations for the scouts to have out, - yard signs & banners up around town - signs hung in local places like post offices, schools, ice cream parlors, etc... You may find some of these work and some don't. In terms of recruiting adults, what I've found works best is to recruit den leaders. What we've done is gone to the den meeting and said - "I'll lead the first few meetings, but then one of you need to take it over." Usually there is someone who is hesitant, but will do it if they have to. It's always worked for us.

One of the best traits in Scouting is the sense of community. I've seen so many adult volunteers who enjoy finding their niche and being an adult volunteer. This is why I like the Camporee cook crew ideas. 1. it gives your adult camporee volunteers time to get to know each other. This is a great way to get them to volunteer again and again. 2. it creates a new volunteer role - cook crew. We have folks who come back just for stuff like this. Volunteering once or twice a year to cook for a bunch of adult volunteers who work with youth is a very noble role. As they get to know each other, they'll be back.

Welcome to the forum! I'm a firm believer that the scouts & adults are out there - we just need to find them. Your instinct to get the feeder pack going is correct. A good feeder pack gives you some breathing room. You can never ignore the feeder pack, but it becomes possible for the pack & troop to get into a groove. That makes it possible for you to do your thing and feel comfortable you'll get a regular group of new scouts every year. Before we start suggesting anything, let me ask a few questions. 1. what do you have for other adult support. Is it just you? Do you have some partners in this? 2. how big is the troop today? 3. where is the pack now? do you have a Cubmaster & Committee Chair?

Wow - I must have been one of the last participants there. I attended in the summer of 1990 or maybe 1989. I really enjoyed it - too bad it closed. Guess one national canoe base is enough.

I'd suggest one of two things: 1. recruit a staff cook team. You can have staff that supports the other staff. 2. partner up with a really strong unit and see if they'd be willing to host the staff. I like #1 myself. Gives you a good opportunity to build some camaraderie amongst the staff members.

I think you're worrying about this too much. Once the BSA goes co-ed, the rules will need to change. Could you imagine if every den meeting, event, activity, camping trips were to require both male & female adult leaders. It would never happen. Further - one set of rules for a co-ed pack, but another for a single sex pack. Once the BSA goes co-ed, then it will be two deep leadership - regardless of sex of the leader.

Well said. My experience has been similar to this. The OA in my area is far from perfect - but it does function and provides scouts a different area of Scouting to explore. Some like it, some don't.

One of the things we recognized is that the OA provides some of out older boys an new avenue in Scouting. As much as we hate to admit it - some of our scouts tire of going on the same trips multiple times. For them, focusing on the OA is a great way for them to continue to be involved. One challenge we have is finding unit leaders who qualify for the OA. We're fortunate to have a couple of ASMs who go to summer camp year after year. The reduces the need for other adults to attend. It's been a long time since we had an adult join the OA because of the summer camp requirement. Personally - I think the OA needs to reduce the adult camping requirement - or at least replace it with one that focuses on total nights.

My sense is that the current leadership of the GAS is willing to embrace change. So - when the question of girls came up, I expect they were more willing to look at it. This is why many are scratching their heads sayijng - I don't get it. They are simply used to a BSA that historically always resisted change like this.

I think you could easily cap your pack or troop at half the size. I know my DE would be disappointed, but he'd adjust quickly. I've come to appreciate that while there is a district/council organization - each unit is just about 100% free to make their own choices.

I'm not that opposed to this. That national has felt the need to more than double the fee in recent years is the more worrying part. It would be nice to see the adult fee drop - even if the youth fee had to rise a little more. At some point it will be hard to ask adults for the money to volunteer.

I hear you. As much as I might like the textbook troop, we have to work with the cards we're dealt. Makes sense. I might almost sum it up as - stick with it. Perhaps the SM isn't perfect. Overtime, look for folks who come into the troop and encourage them. Over time, I may find that those people pop up - if I just keep an eye out. I'm also thinking - keep expecting boy led. Where I (as CC) can, reinforce that - even if for small decisions. Over time, more folks may catch on and pick up the mantle. Someday, maybe the SM really embraces it. Or maybe some day he retires. But, either way, we've got some ASMs working with the boys who believe it an can pick up the mantle. That all makes sense to me. Thank you!

I think its pretty clear that Venturing's issues have nothing to do with admitting girls. The problem with the Bot Scout program is that t is so often being applied poorly There are so many bad troops out there. Adding girls will end up not making a difference. To fix the BSA, they need to address quality of program.

My district is good sized - prob. 50 units. However, training and roundtable is a bust. Online training has shrunk the size and quality of courses. Roundtable is below critical mass and no longer a good value. It's too bad. I'd be ok with merging 2 or 3 district's together. But - the whole council- that's too big.

Same here - I only found the podcasts this summer, but have really learned a lot!

We just went through something in the troop where some adults disagreed on a decision. The politicking and back stabbing that ensued reminded me a lot of this game. Very much there was a "I'm right, you're wrong, I'm going to get my way." I so wanted to turn and say "win all you can." People knock the course, but I'm constantly seeing little reminders like this one. Some of my other favorites are around: - active and empathetic listening - generations in Scouting - stages of team development - leading EDGE None of it's rocket science, but boy does it come back to me pretty regularly. I love the observation about "adult advisor" vs "youth leader". That will stick with me. It brings back memories of the servant leadership concept.

Sorry you are having to go through this. Hopefully when they are face to face, this goes smoothly. In my own time, the in person meetings often work out the best.

This seems like a good thing to me. It creates a mental association with an outdoor event the pushed participants to extremes and to excel. That feels like a positive association for scouting. I don't mind the alcohol - it's an adult event and there is nothing wrong with adults consuming alcohol. Alcohol usage by youth or during times when adults are responsible for the safety of youth is not an issue here. Seems like it's a fine message for youth to see that the BSA is fine with responsible, adult alcohol usage. That all seems like goodness to me.