ParkMan

@OldEagle83 Welcome back to Scouting! Glad to have you here too!

Was reading this over and think I noticed something new. I think this is the key thing to fix for next year. In our pack each scout puts his own car on the track. While doing that, he can do a quick check and make sure all is in order. If a really minor repair is needed such as a stuck wheel - no problem. An adult is stationed at the top of the track, watches the scouts put the cars on the track, looks for any problems, and then starts the race when ready. This has worked very well for us for many years and is very efficient. It's also WAY more fun for the boys. I'd fix that and you'll see this kind of problem go away.

This strikes me as a time to be bold. The way your troop is operating today is incorrect. With you taking on the role of SM, you're the person to change this. The best times to make change like this is at the beginning - people will expect it. In our troop, my approach would be: - discuss it with a couple of key folks informally - ASMs, CC, etc. Let them know what you're thinking and bring them into the discussion. Don't change your goal - but solicit input on how to do it. Use that to come up with a plan. - at your next Commiittee meeting tell them your plan. Be prepared to talk about why this is important. Make a couple of adjustments if neccessary. - announce to families. - do it.

I'm late to this, but wanted to add the flavor that for the most part, these are not awards, but advancements earned. These could be presented by anyone - the Cubmaster or Den Leader does it so that out feels more special. The BSA structure encourages this. From the BSA's Pack Committee description: "Every pack is under the supervision of a pack committee,...". "The pack committee chair leads the pack committee and thus is responsible for the administration, oversight, and support of the pack program." It may not be appreciated - and indeed is something a CC needs to do infrequently, but if he/she thinks a Cubmaster is going in the wrong direction it's his/her job to say so.

The problem isn't that Scouting is hard. The problem is that we all seem to have different definitions of what it is. I see that inherent problem in the discussions on this page. Benevolent drill seargant Boy Scouts is different from "long leashing" Boy Scouts. They are both ways to run a youth program - sure would be nice though if our troop leaders were a bit more consistent. I saw it in Darlene's initial post too. There it really saddens me because new parents have no idea how little boy led there usually is in your typical troop.

Hi Darlene, My sense is that your son's troop is pretty typical. I get the sense that very few troops fully provide a youth led program. I know that ours does not. In our troop, we have a long time Scoutmaster. Though he's been a Scoutmaster for a long time, I get the sense that he really doesn't understand what youth are capable of and/or how to motivate them to really lead. I think deep down he thinks we're boy led, but just doesn't realize that there is a lot more to it than what he does. One thing that really disappoints me reading your note is that it sounds like no-one is willing to sit down with you and try to explain what's going on. As a Scouting volunteer, I am never too busy to talk to a parent and to explain. I may not agree with their request, but I will always listen. If I ever told you "have your son ask his patrol leader", it would be accompanied by a longer explanation about why I was suggesting that. Having spent four years fighting a Scoutmaster and an established cultuer, I've realized that the better thing would have been to simply find a better troop. I'm the Committee Chair of the troop and in hindsight really wish my son had chosen a different troop. Sorry to be a bit negative - but this is the frank feedback that I wish someone had given me. I had all kinds of alarms going off about my son's troop and I said "well, I can volunteer and fix it". I was wrong. If you've got a Scoutmaster that doesn't get it and you have a bunch of adults that like his style, there is not a whole lot you can do. To that end, I'd really consider if this is a troop you want to make work. Best of luck!

That's one of those things that was hard to avoid when I was a den leader. So many of the requirements lend themselves to sitting and doing. Took practice to get there

It's tough sometimes - particularly with the younger cubs. I had a few meetings where I just bailed on my plans and said - let's go do something outside or even just play a game.

The current online courses are: SCO_3001 - Overview and policies SCO_3003 - Sexual Abuse SCO_3004 - Bullying SCO_3007 - Certification Test It strikes me that there are some gaps here in the numbers - as if they intend to add more content. Also - they have both a mandatory and helpful category. Again, seems like they have infrastructure for more.

I did - I don't recall that being covered. Looking at the course numbers, I presume that more content is coming.

Welcome! Thank you for taking on one of the absolutely best jobs in Scouting!

I've seen a lot of WDL who operate a program where the AOL year is the end of the Cub Scout experience. Boy Scouts is a new, but related program for the boys to do next. I think this is why we see the biggest loss in membership when boys go from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. In my mind, it's a continuum. Just as boys go from Wolf to Bear and Bear to Webelos, so too do they take the step from AOL to Boy Scout. It's not that the WDL needs to spend all their time getting the boys ready, but they do need to make it a smooth process.

Nice! We need more folks with this kind of vision. You're welcome to come be an ASM in my troop anytime!

My gut says: - 15 minutes for announcements. summer camp, philmont trip, whatever. - 10 minutes for FOS or other special presentation - 15 minutes for a scout talk or two. - balance on awards. Do most of you do refreshements too?

This is a great idea. It is also 100% within the description of your job (Secretary). To me this is one of those things that if you do it well it can have a tans-formative effect on a troop. A newsletter forces: - up front planning. You can't just wait until two weeks before to say - "hey, we've got a camping trip" - consistent messaging. You, as secretary, figure out length, format, etc. Parents get used to that and love it. - families rely on it. My daughter's middle school has a newsletter. When I can't remember something about a upcoming event I go back and check the latest newsletter. 9 times out of 10, it's there. My troop does not have a newsletter. We literally send of 20 emails a week about all sorts of things. Someone forgot a book - SM sends an email. A reminder to bring shoes on a camping trip - ASM sends an email. I'm convinced that if we had a newsletter our emailing would instantly drop by 75%. So instead of 20 emails, we might send 4 or 5 a week. Parents would be much more likely to actually read them. Now - it's like we're shouting above the noise. This is exactly why the just spent 45 minutes having adults make announcements at the COH. Because no one reads emails, it's the time to tell them everything you've already emailed 3 times about. Go for it!

I saw that too with my son's troop. Making pancakes & hotdogs isn't all the hard for a scout to do. You can easily do it as a Webelos, if not a bear. But, when he got to Boy Scouts, the leaders took a step back and had him doing stuff he did two years earlier. I'd have been bored too. One of the things I saw in Cub Scouts was that den leaders tended to be parents. So they had a pretty good idea of what their son could do. Fast forward to Boy Scouts and the ASMs tended to be longer term volunteers who just liked Boy Scouting. They didn't know the kids that well, so they assumed the least common denominator.

We talk a lot in Scouting about leadership. To me, a big part of leadership is standing up and leading. Every scout could do that, but many choose not to. We've got a kid in our troop that shows up 90% of the time, leads all kinds of events, and puts himself out there. We've got other kids that come 20% of the time, never camp, never participate, never show leadership, and in short - just don't try. We've got a lot more kids in the middle. As adults, I think we want to encourage boys to be more like the first example. Do things, try things, take chances, be a leader. Having a program like the OA which provides an incentive to lead is itself a tool to teach leadership. If a scout tries and puts his heart into it, should he get into the OA - you bet. But, I think for it to be an effective tool, there has to be a line somewhere. If there's not line, how can it be a tool to incentive boys to try & lead.

@Eagledad @Eagle94-A1 I completely understand. I don't think bad of you at all for saying No - I don't have the time. I'm in the middle of my own burnout phase. Been Committee Chair for a troop of 75 boys with a Scoutmaster who has turned difficult and ungrateful into an art form. I do get it. I've said in other threads that I think the real problem behind much of this is the neglect of our district committees. Too few people left doing too many jobs. We lack a structure that develops new leaders and builds up our "community scouting" team. Camporee's suffer, Day Camp suffers, the OA suffers, the list goes on. I just think I've got a choice. I can mourn Scouting's passing, or I can be a voice in my small town that says let's do better. In fact, my plan is to say no to most everything, but instead work to find those people who will say yes. Maybe it won't work - I don't know. But it's all I can think of.

Then change it. Heck, just get your OA group to simply adopt your goal: "By joining the OA, you have chosen to join an elite group. We represent the best of the best scouts. While a member you will become experts with wood tools and will become confident alone in the woods. You're expected to represent the best of the Scout Law. Here you will be given a chance to become even stronger leaders that you are today. If you're up for that, this will be an arena to expand your dreams. If not, that's OK, but this isn't the group for you" I'd start with that. If everyone quits then go recruit a new batch and build it up again. This stuff is only mediocre if we let it be.

What I've been seeing is a much bigger divide between packs & troops that there should be. The WDL are definitely part of the pack culture and leadership group. I think it's just hard for them to think Boy Scout because they are so surrounded by Cub Scout culture. What I've proposed is that we have troop leaders who were once WDL teach the WDL training course in person. Teach the material from the persepctive they now hold being an ASM. Hasn't happened yet, but someday

This seems pretty easy to solve to me. The camping coordinator or Scoutmaster needs to ask a better question. Something like: Scoutmaster: Boys, we need to plan the camping trips for this year. We can do one or two large trips - like Philmont or a long road trip. We also need to do 10 weekend trips that are within a three hour drive. Please come up with a list for both groups. The camping coordinator's form can simply ask both questions. If, for the big trip, every boy puts down Disney World - then great. if they put down Disney World for the monthly trips - hand it back and say please fix it.

I think of it a bit differently - your chapter, and perhaps lodge, has lost it's lustre. I'm coming to realize that it's our generation's turn to make these institutions great. Of course the boys run it, but our generation of adults needs to be behind the scenes lining things up so that it can happen. It feels to me a little like volunteerism is down, so it's making that harder these days, but it seems to be the challenge that's out there.

We did something like this when I was a Cub leader. On a few campings trips, each den level was responsible for doing their own food prep. - The Webelos did most of their own cooking with active support of their parents. - The Bears worked with their parents to make food - The Wolves stirred pots, put ingredients in, etc. - The Tigers flipped pancakes. Some dens did a better job of this than others. My son's den leader was a fantastic guy who spent several den meetings teaching my son (a Bear at the time) to cut, cook on a stove, etc. Other den leader's didn't really understand how to challenge their boys, so they got less out of it. The first time we did it, it was a great experience. The second time was pretty good. The third time a disaster. By the third time, nonsense adult politics crept in. One den leader was ill prepared and kept having to borrow food from other dens. Of course scouters are friendly, but when kids started showing up at the other dens areas saying - "I'm hungry", it got a little ridiculous. The den leader who was the most organized took advantage of the fact that other den leaders didn't read emails and kinda horded the pack gear. Yet another den leader sat in his area and was sniping about the Webelos leader all weekend. That was the last time we did that

@MattR Good question. No, they didn't set these. I do see where you're going with it and think it's a great idea. If I had my way, we'd operate more like you describe. I could fill a whole thread on our woes. In short though, our Scoutmaster corps doesn't really understand how to grow you in the way you describe. We've got more of a Webelos 3 approach. During the skills development portion of our meetings, the ASMs of New Scouts works with the Troop Guides to have some sort of development program. Usually it's something rank related - but not always. I think of our approach a little like a cruise. The ASM is the Cruise director and has a series of fun activities each week. While the boys are not doing those, they work as a patrol to do other things. It's not close to perfect, but it's what we've been doing.

Yes & No. I'm suggesting a second, alternative course in addition/as an alternative to Wood Badge. In fact, I'm fine with Wood Badge as the leadership course. To me, Wood Badge is the leadership course for Committee Chairs, Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, etc... I think it does a fine job at that. I've been a staffer twice and really like Wood Badge - but I see it for what it is and is not. Wood Badge is clearly not a course on how to be a Scoutmaster. How to mentor the SPL, how to organize patrols, how to organize campouts, how to promote boy led, etc... I could go on and on. I can recite the Stages of Team development in my sleep, but I can't tell you how to make patrols work in my troop. In my council, Wood Badge is done very well. At the heart of it is a staff that are all very professional about their roles. More importantly, each member of the staff really, really works hard to do a great job. For Wood Badge, being a Scoutmaster really doesn't matter - so the staff selection here doesn't really focus on that. The staffs end up being a mix of positions and programs. If anything, the staffs are generally composed of very good leaders who really strive to deliver an outstanding training. The one thing we do have is a very methodical process for finding good staff. Existing staff all share insights on participants. This is then used to help find the new 1/3 of the staff every year. In my mind, the separate Scoutmaster course I'm suggesting would be different and would be staffed with the best Scoutmasters. I could see much the same process. Some key people put together a Scoutmaster curriculum, great Scoutmasters are recruited to review it, refine it, and teach it. You make it a worthwhile course, so staff are willing to continue year to year. You rotate in some new staff so that there is a development process that continues to challenge & grow the staff. Come up with some kind of mentoring program after the fact new Scoutmasters have someone to talk to as they grow in their own positions.