ParkMan

I don't doubt it can work. My question is a bit different - is the average troop running a quality program that can continue to engage older scouts? Or, put differently - is the program of the BSA to hard for the majority of packs and troops to implement. We have examples where the program can and does work well. Those packs and troops grow. Yet, we hear about declining numbers nationwide. Where is the disconnect?

Both valid points. - length of Cub Scouts - yes - 5-6 years is too long for Cub Scouts. - adult burnout - yes, true as well. If I look at what I feel as a volunteer, it's essentially a push to work harder and find more volunteers to help. I feel like the demands of the program itself require me to work harder and harder. What is national to do about those things? While I suppose that national could drop lions & tigers, that doesn't seem likely. It strikes me that national only has three things they can do: 1) change the program - perhaps shorten it and make it less ambitious. Or maybe split Cub Scouts into two three year sections. 2) provide better training and materials on how to implement the program - make it easier for me as an adult to volunteer. 3) pressure councils to develop better support teams to give unit leaders more program help.

@EagledadI'm sure that's correct. So, why do we have boring pack programs? I always felt my pack's program was kinda dull. But, as much as I tried to search, I couldn't find a recipe book of "do this and it will be fun."

In my area, we don't see that much. There is some push by parents for our current Scouts to make Eagle, but I can't remember hearing from a lot of scouts who say "my parents made me join". I think the general premise is correct though. Years ago, scouting was more novel and unique. It was fun to camp every month with your friends. It was fun to build some pinewood derby cars. It was fun to learn how to build a fire. Today, those things are still fun - but not for 5-6 years. I still think a big step would be more program differentiation at the different levels. Don't make Cub Scouts 6 years. Make it two separate 3 year programs. If you really want to keep the boys together in a single Lions to Webelos pack - that's fine. But, create the program in a way that when they get to Bears or Webelos, things change - a lot. Same with Boy Scouts. Again - if you want a 11-17 troop - fine. But do something so that the program changes enough at 14/15 that it is fresh and exciting again.

The country changes every 10-20 years. It's quite different than it was in 1957. The biggest difference between them and now is how we think of organizations like the BSA. Then, our parents and grand parents would have worked hard to make the organizations work. Parents would have pushed their kids to make Scouting work. Today, Scouting is one of many activities vying for attention.

Yeah - I've got a hunch that you could reverse the two images and claim the same thing. Modern is in the eye of the beholder.

Feels like they're getting carried away with themselves. Seems to me that anyone that deals with a council does so deliberately. I cannot imagine anyone is going to now say - "I was confused by what kind of council you were - now it is much clearer."

For fun, I was looking around for pictures of Wood Badge regalia from other countries. I can find the UK sources - but that's it. Anyone aware of pictures, web sites, etc. that might have more info. Thanks!

Our troop is routinely fed by four different packs. It's interesting to see the difference in how they prepare the Scouts for Boy Scouts. The scouts from some packs just jump right in and get it. The scouts from other packs kinda drift around for a while. One of the biggest differences I see is in the area of "expectations". The scouts from some packs attend regularly, camp regularly, participate. The scouts from other packs are more likely to show intermittently. Since Boy Scouts is more individually driven, those boys have a much harder adjustment. You can tell which dens and packs had a leader that really set the right expectations with the boys.

Hi @cmd, Sure thing - but truth be told, I kinda winged it. What I would do is something like: Tigers Call Tigers to the front of the room. CM: Tigers, you had a very successful first year as Cub scouts. <Insert a few fun things the Tiger's did>. Did you have a fun time? Tigers: Tigers would generally say yes CM: I am going to now paint an orange strip on your face in recognition of all you have done this year. [CM paints each scouts face.] CM: As you have been great Tiger scouts, I want to hear you best Tiger yell. Make it loud! [Scouts scream for a bit] CM: Today you will graduate and become Wolf Scouts. You will receive a new Wolf neckerchief. Next year you will go on even more fun adventures as you continue you scouting journey. I am now going to paint an yellow strip on your face in anticipation of your journey as Wolf scouts. [CM paints each scouts face.] CM: Congratulations Scouts. [Everyone claps and scouts sit down] I then repeated a variation on this for the other scouts. I tried to make it personal for each den, adding a story or two about their year. For the Webelos to AOL Scouts, I would talk about how they would be crossing over to Boy Scouts this next year. They would get a third mark symbolizing all the Webelos colors. The colors I used were: Current Tigers: Orange for Tigers/Yellow for Wolves Current Wolves: Yellow for Wolves/Blue for Bears Current Bears: Blue for Bears/Green for Webelos Current Webelos: Green for Webelos, Add red & yellow to complete all the Webelos colors.

Good point - when I read that, I was thinking less inspection and more of gear check off. Something like.. Guys - we're going to take a minute and make sure we're all ready to go. Cover the top 5-10 things and do a quick review with the patrol. PL runs it. Bob - why are you wearing sneakers? Where are your boots? Everyone's got a jacket - right? What, no jacket for a December camping trip? SPL - we've got a problem over here. I do see the flip side. Being wet and cold on a camping trip is sure way to make sure a scout packs better next time. It did for me.

That's a fantastic idea! We don't do this, but really should. It expect that if you start this in the spring with the new cross over scouts, by the time cold weather hits everyone will be well accustomed to it.

.@FireStone thanks for sharing the perspective. I'm inferring that this is a pretty ingrained pack policy done with the best of intentions. I had to stop a similar policy in our pack when I became Cubmaster. I got no push back for the others. I felt that awarding ranks early robs the boys of a sense of accomplishment. They know they didn't earn it. When I was a scout, I was very proud of my rank. I'm sure the boys still like their badge, but they know what's going on and that they didn't really earn it. What we did was two things: 1) moved the big dinner to the end of the year. It became a late May/early June event. It focused on celebrating the year and the boys move to the next level. 2) awarded ranks when they were earned. Dens often completed them together, but not always. We'd see dens where half would earn it one month, the rest the next. The face paint ceremony that is often associated with rank became part of the graduation process and that end of year dinner. We found this a very successful approach. Boys earned rank, boys got recognized, boys got face painted. Win win.

I would concur. - As a pack leader and a troop leader, we always maintained the policy that dues could be adjusted as needed. We always believed that no scout should be turned away because of fees. - Our council also has a uniform program. They would provide a full uniform to any scout that needed one. I don't think this was widely known - but we used it for scouts several times. I would say that $100 for dues are not crazy in our area. With National's fee being $33 a year it pushes up unit dues. I think ours are in the $75 range now. With that, we barely make ends meet as a unit. It doesn't take long to rack up 20-30 dollars a year in awards.

Thank you! I'd missed it before.

I was wondering about the timeline today for older scouts. Is the idea to have an early adopter project in Feb 2019 for the older scouts?

Wow - those are looking great. Looks like your boys are having a great time in Boy Scouts. Nice job on the sewing too!

I feel that a lot sometimes too. The weight of the expectations of my Scouting role. I like to do things to a high standard so that the boys have the best experience possible. It can only be harder when you just can't physically help the way you normally would. My suggestion - look at this as an opportunity. What you know about Scouting and how this should work is way more important than what you can physically do. Here's the time when you're forced to rely on others. Devise the best ceremony you can with what you've got. Look at what you can't do this year and be creative. With that in mind, think about what you could do next year if you could recruit a few more hands. Start building back up for next year.

This is my thought too. My other suggestion is to focus on making the ceremony as fun and rewarding for the ceremonies team you've still got. Challenge them, but don't stress them. If it's a smaller ceremony - that's fine. Use them as your core while you rebuild.

I'm thinking this is the tradeoff of the BSA high adventure program. To make the challenge achievable by many, it has to be achievable by many different kinds of youth. I full imagine there are lots of 10-12 year olds that could easily handle the more strenuous treks. I imagine that you'll find that in general, the kind of family who is likely to do this is that same family who's kids are more likely able to handle the treks. But, once you open it up to younger youth, you dispel the notion that it's only achievable for older scouts. Even if just for maturity's sake - I think it should remain 14+. If I were a 17 year old going on my "pinnacle of Scouting" trip, I'd rather go with other older scouts.

I'm really glad to hear you're in the mend. I've had more close calls with saw blades than I care for myself. Sounds like the Scouts are having a little good natured fun at your expense.

Welcome @ScottishNaomi!

Welcome @ngoclinh23. It's not a FAQ, but I understood Venturing better after skimming the Venturing Handbook. I'm guessing that part of the reason why there isn't more info is because it's a much less structures program. Each Crew does their own thing, their own way. In theory, the variation between Crews is much greater than between troops.

I think most COs are primarily interested that the Scout program on their premises is being run in the best interest of the boys and the CO. That the Scoutmaster can't manage a simple election without a fight would be my concern.

A Scoutmaster is not king. If a Scoutmaster is acting unprofessionally - other volunteers have every right to say so. The OA election team are invited guests. They should show due respect to the SM. In turn, if the SM begins to act unprofessionally, they should walk out. But, in the end, if things escalate quickly, I full expect the OA advisor to stand up to the SM. As a CC, I place trust in the SM to lead and organize the program in a way consistent with the best culture of the CO.