ParkMan

Good call - walking away is best. There are lots of packs out there that function very well. You only get a small window of time as a Cub Scout parent. It's one thing to try to change a few things. But, when it gets to this level, I really don't think it's worth your energy. You're right to put this on the door step of others who dig into the issues. For those of us that have been around for a while, the structure and behavior you describe of this unit are very unusual. A single combined pack/troop committee is odd. A committee that told the leaders not to come - very odd. The district getting involved this directly is also very unusual. Districts rarely get involved in internal unit operations like this - especially not field directors. They don't call special meetings to complain about the unit. There is a lot that is unusual here. That's why you're getting lots of questions. Best of luck!

I've had scouts dual register. It's unusual - but it is allowed. I'm sure there are packs in your area that would love to have your son join. If you'd come to our pack, we'd have welcomed you to the group. When you approach a new pack, I'd just go over the dual registration approach at the beginning. As for pursuing the issue with the old pack. My recommendation would be to make a call to the helpline above. Give them a report of your concern. They'll follow up with the council and it will get investigated. I wouldn't think any more of it - I'd move on.

Welcome @thehavensgrey. Thanks for getting invovled with Scouting again!

Instead of reading, I'd suggest internalizing the lessons contained within and developing an activity the scouts can do. They'll remember that more.

As a CC, I'd welcome a phone call from a parent. Here we have a concern from one parent about bullying by another patent. It may be something, it may be a misunderstanding. But, I would want to know. I have pretty good relationships with the SM and ASMs. It's easy for me to ask around and see what people think.

I agree @WonderBoy. You've captured nicely what I've found. I definitely find we need to think about succession planning. We have a few ASMs who are newer and are learning the ropes. Some eventually get more active, some not. But, when we don't have those folks in the wings and someone leaves, we have to scramble. I used to convert less active ASMs to Committee Members. But, as I learned about Troop operations, I realized how important a strong Committee is. So, I started really focusing on building up the committee. Coming out of that - I only register Committee Members as those people who want to be Committee Members. So, we register folks for whatever position their heart desires. We try to then encourage them to get active. It's probably not ideal, but it seems to work. We're starting to experiment with the Unit Scouter Reserve position. The idea is to point those people to it that want to register, but not take training or take on a role. I'm not sure if it will fly - but we'll see.

@Kdl Welcome!!! Thanks for the dedication to your den. The scouts will definitely benefit from it.

That's very fortunate to say the least. Most dens are luck to have a den leader and an assistant. Now saying that one has to be a female is going to make things harder. I'm not too concerned about the troop. We have several female ASMs in the troop today - so this doesn't seem like a ptoblem.

My point is that once a unit goes co-ed, we have to stop thinking about it as a boys group and a girl group - it's one unit - pack, troop, or crew. If the unit cannot line up sufficient adult leadership for an event, then the event doesn't happen. In the short term, for the 11-17 group this shouldn't be an issue. If you have truly a truly separate boys troop & girls troop, then it's just a question of each troop having sufficient leadership. But, if you go the separate troops on paper only route, then it's of course harder. I think saying - we can't camp because we don't have enough female leaders is fine. That's not inflammatory - just reality. Saying - we can't camp because we have to bring the girls and can't find enough moms to go with them - that's inflammatory. Subtle difference I know. Agree fully - a unit can't have it both ways. We'll admit girls, but not deal with the impact of having girls. If you admit girls, you unit has to be prepared for a big push to get female supervision on outings. I think you mean that as a criticism, but I'll take it. I just think that as volunteers we've got to own finding the solutions to our own unit's problems. If you accept girls in to your troop - you have to be prepared for what the means. But, you can extend that to whatever. Not enough volunteers, then come up with a plan to fix it. Not enough scouts, then focus on recruiting. etc.

Hi all - back from a busier than expected work trip. I was reading over answers to my question of what would you change. Thanks for that. I read them all and picked up on a few that strike me as very good things we could do: That's an interesting statistic. If your pack is spending that much energy on the Tiger program I can see why burnout is a problem. When I was a Cub leader, we spent about the same energy on Tiger's as any other level - so I'm surprised to see others with a different experience. Yes - I'd agree with there. I'd think #2 woudl work if you had something to replace advancment with. i.e., focus less on advancement - but more on outdoor activities. I like what I've heard some other countries doing where leader training is much more of a program - multiple classes over time. Basic training + IOLS + Wood Badge is not enough. I agree with #5 here. Yes - have a clear difference between Cub Scouts & Webelos. Make it fun and fresh again. These all strike me as things that would change the makeup of scouting enough to either attract or retain more scouts and to also make it easier to keep quality volunteers around. It would strike me that National mandating these could make them happen. I also wonder if these are the kinds of thing that need to happen first at the district level?

So, if I read this right - the scenario is: you've got a unit (pack, troop, crew, whatever) that is co-ed, have male and female scouts that want to attend whatever event, but don't have sufficient female leadership for the girls to attend. To me, this is easy - you cancel the event for all. If you've got a co-ed unit, you don't have boy events and girl events. The group does things together. The minute you start saying "the boys can go because we have enough dads, but the girls cannot because we don't have enough moms", you've not longer got a unified unit. To me that's way worse than canceling an event. Further, you don't say - "we can't go because we don't have enough moms for the girls". That's inflamatory. You simply say - "we don't have sufficient adult leadership to hold the event.

I've heard of folks trying to register as merit badge counsellors to circumvent the fee. Would like to see an official policy from national on what "registered" means

I'm getting off topic, but... 50% of recruiting is pack outreach. Troops need to have an organized, active outreach program to packs. We have an event in the fall, event in the spring, visit dens, provide den chiefs, and will help packs however we can. My belief is that Scouting is a continuum. It's not that our feeder pack owes it to us to send their scouts to the troop - but that a feeder pack relationship allows us to concentrate our efforts on that pack. If you're in a troop that isn't doing this and you're shrinking, then I would strongly encourage you to pull together the PLC and figure out how to start. BTW - the other 50% is a distinguishing program. What is it that makes your troop special?

I'm not blaming units, but that is where to problems are felt: - declining unit membership - difficulty in finding adult volunteers - misapplication of the program - higher attrition The way scouting is setup today we have three distinct levels: national, councils, units Given that structure, what would you have national do (or stop doing) so that we see: - unit membership increase - adult volunteer increase - well applied, fun programs - decrease in attrition

In our area about 75% of CORs have both a pack and a troop. It's the most common model here. I encourage Scouts to shop troops - but it has limited success. Most of the time scouts are more influenced by their den leader than anything else.

I agree with your themes here. But what you describe sounds more like a unit/district problem. How would you want national to help with that?

But isn't a lot of what's wrong in Scouting a problem at the unit and district level? Not enough boys, not enough adults, boring programs, disorganized unit. How does national fix that?

We'd have this happen in our pack from time to time. We'd usually just setup a "free to a good home" table and let scouts claim them. For us, it was usually just campout patches - so no big deal about just handing those out.

Welcome to the forum @Cyclone. Wonderful to have you here. I'm glad you decided to join!

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the wisdom and experience you have. I am in awe of your Scouting accomplishments. Scouting today is fundamentally the same program it has always been. The youth we serve have changed far more than the program has. Even the introduction of girls is a smaller change than the changes in boys over the last 100 years. The BSA needs leaders with your depth of experience to guide us as we go forward. Some of that leadership needs to remind us of the fundamentals inherent in Scouting. Some of that leadership needs to be in looking at the challenges facing the program today and helping to devise solutions.

I see it a bit differently. The BSA is not defined by what it once was. It is defined by what it is now. We can all debate if the BSA has lost it's way. But it is what it is. We can choose to mourn the passing of what was or to figure out how to make the best way forward.

While I think it's very good material for every direct contact leader to know, I groan at yet another course for leaders to have to take. I almost wish that the BSA would find an equivalent amount of material to trim from the new online leader training. I think there are currently 17 courses for position specific, 3 for YPT, and now this to be an ASM.

@Antelope16-2 Welcome to the forum! Congrats on being asked to staff! When I staffed, I found that I learned as much, if not more, from being a staffer than a participant. It was a truly wonderful experience. Enjoy. Commissioners have one of the most important jobs in Scouting. The magic of Scouting happens in our packs, troops, and crews. The simple fact that most scout leaders are parents means that unit leadership regularly changes. Commissioners bring tremendous value to the scouts we serve be sharing their knowledge and wisdom. Strong commissioners are an important part of developing strong units.

Can you recruit others to the charge? Get others in your circle to attend, help them see the opportunities, and encourage them to take it on.

Concur. If you have an event like a COH with outside guests, set the expectation at the start of the meeting. There are lots of ceremonies that I go to where someone says: "This is an important event, please don't use your cell phone during the ceremony. If you absolutely need to take a call, please step outside"