ParkMan

This is all rather easy in our troop. We have only the occasional problems with helicopter parents, but they sort themselves out very quickly. We always have one or two new scout program ASMs. They are always experienced troop ASMs and take control of the program for Scouts for the first year or two. To simplify their job, we recruit new scout parents to help them as ASMs assisting with the new scout program. It's very clear to all which adult has the overall responsibility for new scouts trips - either the SM, ASM New Scouts, or his designee. We don't have rules about what parents can do and cannot. The adults all tend to camp togther on trips which is great. We also do try to limit new adults. There are no rules about being a committee member for a year or whatever. If a new parent wants to be an ASM - that's great. They just take direction from the New Scouts ASM.

I've seen similar things happen with Webelos scouts that graduates Scouts into our troop. Some dens are great and have good retention, others do not. My sense is that much of it is about how the Webelos den and pack operates. I'm not sure if it's because some dens are better are preparing Scouts or because some dens do a better job of retaining those Scouts who are likely to be active Boy Scouts. Probably a little of both. I wonder if a well organized Webelos Den Leader training taught be former Webelos Den Leaders who have successfully made the troop transition would help. Get the Webelos den leaders thinking a different way than Cub Scouts. Also, get them thinking about the important things to start doing that are likely to get the Scouts successfully started in a troop.

Troop recruiting is a funny business. Back when I was Cubmaster, we had a very active recruiting program. It was a lot of work, but one that I enjoyed immensely. One of my great joys was getting to know prospective families and helping them decide is Cub Scouts was for their son, and if so, whether our pack was a good fit. It would not be a stretch to say they I'd average 2-3 hours per new Cub Scout. When I moved over to the troop, it was a very different world. Our recruiting focused so much more on simply providing a good program. It was like the line from the movie Field of Dreams - "build it and they will come." But, in neither case did we ever assume that "Scouts were ours". In fact, we always saw other troops recruiting into the packs that feed us as encouragement. If a troop comes in and starts recruiting better than us, or makes their program sound stronger, then it's a sign to us that we need to work a bit harder. I mean this in the nicest way @Eagle94-A1, but if a DL decides to take his boys to a different troop - then shame on my troop. It would be unfair of my troop to blame the DL.

Don't most den leaders initiate the visits? I assume you just call who you want to call.

Around here the Webelos dens still visit multiple troops as well.

You probably already know this, but... I'd just make the conversation positive about what you and your sons want to see in a troop. This change is not really about what you dislike in the current troop. This move is about what you all want to get from Scouting and the difficult realization that you need to go somewhere else to get it. In an ideal world, the current troop would be providing this. It's only through painful reflection that you've realized you need to seek that elsewhere. If he asks why you cannot get that here, then by all means, give examples of how the move towards family friendly Scouting has hampered the ability to get that in the current troop. But I wouldn't start by criticizing the current troop.

I'm reminded that Wood Badge, like all training, is merely an opportunity to acquire knew knowledge and skills. The beads, neckerchief, and woggle are merely symbols presented to someone who has undergone the process of attempting to acquire more knowledge & skills. We can debate eternally whether 6 days of training and 5 projects over 18 months warrants special symbols. To me, the beads are more a recognition of completing the ticket than sitting through some classes. A simple ticket really just cheats one person - the Scouter. Sure, it seems like the Scouter gets by easy. But, the goal of Wood Badge really isn't getting in the beads. The goal of Wood Badge is to grow as a Scouter by going through the process. The ticket is really that part of the process where a leader sits down and establishes a vision he'd like to achieve for his unit and then works through five tasks to help in accomplishing that vision. The participant should look for some goals and ticket items that are worth the effort. The course staff should help to encourage a Scouter to challenge himself - but again, if a Scouter is determined to get by easy, it can happen. One related thing - I would encourage anyone who goes through the program to write a ticket that benefits their unit. In our council, it's required that 4 of the 5 ticket items have to directly relate to your primary role in Scouting. If you're an ASM, then is has to be something to do with you being an ASM. I get that in some councils it's different. I'd still encourage you to write ticket items that related to your unit. Being an ASM who then goes off and does ticket items about district or council stuff is missing the mark a bit.

Great choice @Eagle94-A1. While I fully get the desire to help improve a troop, at some point we all realize they often don't want to change. Your son's time in Scouting is just way too short to struggle with a troop that doesn't share your son's vision of how a troop should work. Your time as a parent is too precious to have the level of frustration that this troop has caused you. All my best in finding the right troop for you all!

You don't get the beads for sitting through the course. You get the beads because you demonstrate the application of the knowledge by completing the ticket.

I use a new unit as an excuse to buy a new shirt. I figure I'm involved in a unit for several years, so might as well have a new shirt that will last the duration. It's a minor thing as it lets me "retire" my old shirt when I leave a unit.

I agree with @Sentinel947. I've been a CC for about 5 years and watched the SM role closely. Here's take: 1) Your family always takes priority. 2) As Scoutmaster, you set the tone for the troop & the ASMs. The tone and your direction is significantly more important than whether your on every trip and at every event. 3) If you don't create space for others, they will never fill it. In other words, if you do it all - then the opportunity is not there for others to step up. 3) Failure is OK. You're job is bigger than an event or a camping trip. It's ok to let things occasionally fail due to #1, #2, or #3 above.

We had some success one year where the DL took out the calendar and figured out that there were 26 den meetings in a year and that there were 20 requirements that have to get done. She called a parents meeting on den meeting. At the meeting she had the Cubmaster spend an hour with the boys. While that was going on she brought the calendar and the list of requirements to the parents and told them "I need each of you to sign up to teach two activities." What I learned from that experience is that a being a den leader is not about the drudgery of planning field trips or coming up with crafts or games. It's about looking at each requirement and saying - what's the most fun way I can think of to spend 30 minutes on that with the boys. When I realized that, being a den leader wasn't so scary.

This seems to be a pretty good summary of what I'm reading too. My take here is: Brow beating, acting superior, etc - this are not good tactics for any of us to employ. They don't seem to serve Wood Badge well. Maybe you'll get one or two more people for your course, but in the long run do a lot more harm than good. Efficacy of the course - Out of this topic, I've realized that it's a mistake for Wood Badge to simply label itself as "leadership" training and most certainly not the "best leadership training ever". Lots of us take leadership training in other places - especially at work. I think it sets expectations too high for the course too and then people walk away and say "eh, not that great". I liked @Eagledad's description above. Further, regardless of what we call it, there will certainly always be a good segment of our community for whom it's not adding a lot of new value. That doesn't mean it's not a good course for the BSA to have. There are lots of Scouters who don't have all these skills. I know that from my troop's perspective, I see participants making a bigger impact after taking it - that's a good thing.

Understood @desertrat77. I'm reminded of a interesting Wood Badge fact I learned along the way. The National Wood Badge director in any country is entitled to wear five beads. As I understand it, in the United States the last person to wear five beads was Green Bar Bill. Every person since him who has been entitled to be a five beader has refused the recognition. I always thought that showed a lot of respect and class. Your experience, unfortunately like others, clearly shows that not everyone who has completed Wood Badge understands class. You'd like to think the three and four beaders would get it - but I've sadly learned too well this weekend that not all do. Here's hoping that at least some of those folks will start getting the message that they need to think a lot harder about their own actions.

@desertrat77 As a supporter of the program, I'm embarassed to read that there are those that make those claims. On their best day they are ridiculous exagerations. Trying to say that Wood Badge training is superior to other management or leadership type training is the wrong approach. Rather then saying it's better than someone else's course, we'd be better served by describing it as it is. Making grandiose claims is really not needed. There's more than enough good reasons for someone to attend without making those claims. Anyone who tells you that you're lazy, not up to snuff, or don't care is simply a bad ambassador for Wood Badge. I'd rather have 100 empty courses than fill one through guilty and criticism. Frankly if I was in a position to do so, I'd cancel their course.

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow. A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event. It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend. It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff. Event emcee introduces the course director. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is. The other staff introduce themselves. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate. They’ll usually say a few words about their significance and history. Course director presents the beads. Course director may add a few extra remarks and may present a few extra items. Usually it will be something about person's ticket - particularly if it had an impact on the group at the beading. The participant says a few words. Ceremony is done. It probably takes about 10 minutes. If it's an event with Scouts, they generally try to move along quickly. If it's done in front of a Wood Badge oriented group, they'll usually go longer - maybe tell some stories or something like that. Interestingly enough, I've seen a few done in front of Cub Scout packs where they'll go a little longer and explain things a little more for the cubs benefit - they seem to enjoy that from what I've seen. Most Cub Scout packs might see a beading every 3-4 ears, so it's not a terribly common occurrence. I get the sense that it's also kinda neat that the course director is often some really experienced Scouter who is comfortable in front of a group of Scouts. Is 10 minutes too long? Not sure. I see the value of some ceremony here and I kinda like that they explain things like the neckerchief, woggle, and beads.

I've thought a lot about the recruiting aspect of Wood Badge. As a Troop CC, I have seen a lot of benefit in having leaders attend, and so try to encourage it. Sorry to make this all so long - but over zealous recruiting was described as a major complaint, so I thought I'd start by sharing what I tend to do. Why I recruit One of the biggest benefits to our troop is the ticket process. For us, it has encouraged leaders to get more focused in their involvement with the troop. I have seen it transform a volunteer who is present, but waiting for guidance into someone with more confidence who will take on some ownership, initiative, and drive to accomplish their goals. This has been very good for us and has helped us to strengthen as an adult leadership team. However, don't get me wrong - we have people who show up and just do that naturally. It's just that our volunteers who take it tend to come back and have a bigger impact in the troop after taking the course. How I explain the course: So, when I encourage attendance, I usually take a few minutes to explain the following: 1) Give a fair description of the course I explain that the first part is a well done course that consists of two, three day weekends. The materials covers leadership skills in a Scouting context. It's intent is not to train on Scout or outdoor skills. You will however learn a lot about Scouting the full Scouting program - Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Venturing. You will also learn a lot about the patrol method and how a Scout led troop operates. I tell them that one of my favorite parts of the course is the people. The staff are all experienced, energetic Scouters. Many of the staff have taught the course multiple times. The participants are Scouters from all over the council. They run the range or program, experience, and rolls. You'll have den leaders, Cubmaster, Scoutmasters, Committee Members, and more. While on the course, you'll learn from all these people and significantly grow the number of Scouters you can call and ask for help and guidance. In summing up, I share that the whole process is very well organized and prepared. I share a little about the staff selection and development process. I let them know that by the time they get there, the staff has put in three weekends getting ready for the course. I share that many participants rave about the experience - though I caution that you have to go in willing to embrace it. 2) I explain the ticket process I tell them that a really big part of the experience is the ticket. I share the idea that the course staff work with them to set goals for their position in Scouting. The staff will then help them translate those goals into a series of meaningful, but challenging projects designed to help them accomplish those goals. After the completion of the course, they'll spend time completing those projects. I do tell them that the projects are not intended to be busy work. They are meaningful things they they are things you'd probably do otherwise - it's just that Wood Badge helps put some structure around them to encourage you to complete them in a timely way. 3) I will point to others that have taken it We generally have 3-4 people in our ranks that have taken Wood Badge. So, I point out those people. One on one conversations I will usually approach a few people individually. The enthusiastic ASM or committee member who is off to a good start, but I think could use a boost. The experience Scouter that I think would enjoy the experience as well as the interaction and enthusiasm of the participants and staff. I don't pressure - but I encourage. Something like "Hey Bob - you're doing a great job in the troop. I think Wood Badge would be something you'd get a lot out of. I'd encourage you to attend."

Another thing came to mind One of the single best Scouting courses I've taken was a two hour University of Scouting session on Troop annual planning. What that thought me was to focus for a small amount of time on your big goals for the year. Is it a trip to Philmont, a three day canoeing trip, a beach camping experience, or something else that's new and exciting. From there, start planning your monthly camping trips. If your troop is going to Philmont, it will need some warm up hikes, so plan that into the calendar. From there the Scouts then need to start figuring out what has to happen each week to support that. i.e., if you're canoeing this month you might need some skills instruction - then build that in. You'll need time to plan food, gear, supplies, etc. I mention this because I find that a very common mistake of both adults & scouts is that they look at the troop meeting as an event to plan. They then try to figure out 90 minutes of stuff to do. Given the limited experience of most scouts (and most adults), that leads to lots of elongated lecture time. However, I think that's backwards. Instead, they should look at what they need to accomplish the month and then figure out how they can leverage the troop meetings to get it done. I see troop meetings as a gift - they give the scouts a 3-4 hours of meeting time a month to make their camping trip the best thing ever. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a PLC have a lackluster meeting only to then see an email that says "come 30 minutes before the meeting so that we can plan food for the campout this weekend." This mistake results in boring troop meetings and then underwhelming camping trips.

Hi @Jenn, I suspect that it's not that your troop doesn't want to improve. It's that the troop is a bubble. They don't know what they don't know and don't realize that there is a bigger world out there that is honestly a whole lot more fun. If this was a troop with a long time leader doing this, then I'd suspect the Scoutmaster doesn't want to change. But, in this case where there are leadership changes, I suspect it's a lot more about simply not knowing. I'm guessing that they figure they're going along just fine. There is an intro level course - ILST (Intro to Leadership Skills for Troops). It is designed to be taught by older scouts to younger Scouts at the troop level. I'd look to see if you could get this going for your troop. Simple exposure to the materials will get some wheels turning. There is an second level scouts - NYLT (National Youth Leadership Training). It is taught at the council level. Often a troop will send the SPL and upcoming SPLs to this class. It is a very good way for your older scouts to learn leadership skills in the context of a well structured course. I would highly recommend this. If your Scouts are not active in the OA, I'd encourage that too. I've seen this be a way for older Scouts to intermingle with other older Scouts. By osmosis, they'll see how they lead and emulate some of that.

@Sentinel947 I think that's a very good collection of the frustrations that I am reading about Wood Badge. I fully agree - feedback is a gift. I can't say that I see the same things, but I'm certainly fine in accepting everyone's word that they happen. I think that our national Wood Badge leaders should be thinking about and learning from this perception. I think Wood Badge should take the high road here. I think a big part of being a leader is in modeling the behavior you'd hope to see in others. So, as a Wood Badge community, lets listen, learn, and change. These things are currently all in the spirit of the Wood Badge material. Let's leverage them and grow. I keep coming back to the idea that it would serve Wood Badge well if the course focused some time and energy on the idea of being an Ambassador for Scouting. Underscore that often it's not what you do, but how you do it that is remembered. While I understand the frustration, it still feels off to me that as Scouters we justify these sorts of generalizations and criticisms of Wood Badgers as a whole. Why is it okay for the Scouter community to treat an entire community with disdain like this? I guess I don't understand how in an organization that is so modeled on values and leadership, it's considered OK simply because "they've earned it."

Clearly that was inappropriate and wrong. Scouters make bad choices all the time. Reminds me of a time we took our Cub Pack to the Council Cuboree. The OA folks decided that it would be great to have an hour long OA drumming demonstration at the evening Cuboree campfire. So, 6 guys came out and drummed for an hour in front of 600 participants. Needless to say our pack lasted 15 minutes. We did enjoy great sport that night back at the campsite "Hey Bob - are they still going? Yep". Classic. OA Call Out Ceremonies around here are kinda like that too. Ok, we have a great Camporee campfire and then at the end and spend 15 minutes tapping out new OA members. It's great fun for the new OA members. The younger guys or the ones that don't get elected are often bored to tears.

Then why do folks keep referring to WB'ers as a group - like they're all the same? The WB'ers ruined this, the WB'ers ruined that. Look at the WB'ers - they're messing stuff up again. It just feels like whatever personal frustration folks have grown into a sort of thing where "real scouters get to make fun of the WB'ers."

I just get the sense that there's a thing in the Scouter community where it's considered an accepted practice to make fun of Wood Badge and those that have taken it. I understand that many feel that they are justified in doing it. It really just seems that somewhere along the way it has grown into something bigger than being rightly frustrated with some Scouters who have taken Wood Badge.

Saying "Wood Badge is just another training course" is technically correct - but it misses some of the most important parts of the experience. Let me see if I can explain. First - It's a shared experience. A Wood Badge course is two very long three day weekends. During that time, the participants spend a lot time getting to know each other. The whole course is structured to encourage that - kinda like the patrol method can for Scouts. Some of the participants clearly have a "when can I go home and mow my lawn" vibe. But, many others embrace the experience. I'll admit - I enjoyed the people I met and their passion, energy, and enthusiasm. Call me crazy, but I enjoy Scouting and I enjoy getting to know people who enjoy Scouting. It's very natural to make new friends on a course. And yes, my two weekends turned into some friendships that I maintain today. Second - It's a personal accomplishment. Much of the Wood Badge experience is the time spent working on your ticket. Sure, some Scouters create simple tickets that are easy to finish. But, many create tickets that challenge them quite a bit personally. These are projects that you work on for the better part of 18 months. When I got home from my course, I had absolutely no idea how I'd get mine done. I put in hundreds of hours working on it. So yeah, when I got my beads, I felt a pretty significant sense of personal accomplishment.

Sure - i get the Wood Badge isn't the pinnacle of Scouting knowledge. It's a leadership course set in a Scouting context. It's can provide you tools to be a better Scouter - but they are just that - tools. I'm 100% in support of an advanced course for Scoutmasters. That would be wonderful. A sort of Wood Badge or Powder Horn scale course about being a Scoutmaster. Scout skills, boy led, patrol method, etc. That would be an awesome course! I'm not looking to start up a debate here. I just think that the volume of negative Wood Badge comments are excessive.