ParkMan

Point well taken. At the scout level just about all of this adult should be transparent - knots, FOS, round table, adult recognition dinners, Wood Badge, etc.. If it isn't, then we're doing it wrong. We're often quick to deride these things - but they really should frankly by inconsequential to the Scouts. To me the point is - let the program be the program. If individuals make mistakes, correct them. But I would encourage people to take a step back and let the program breathe. Keep it simple, make it fun.

I never said he was anti-Wood Badge. I said he's beating up Wood Badge. I stand by that statement. My point is that as someone who is not anti-Wood Badge these sorts of statements jump out at me: We all get it - there are people who are over the top - it happens in every organization. But, we do not need to look for opportunity after opportunity to complain about it. We don't need to create labels like "Really Big Deal Cult" or "cult of critters" or assert that Wood Badge translates into "I am better than you." Point made, complaint registered. Can we please stop taking every opportunity that arises to complain about those Wood Badgers who go over the top. The continued negativity towards the program adds up. Truthfully, you're not discouraging the pompus windbags from attending - you're discouraging the decent, humble Scouters who could benefit from the program.

I am sure you've got your reasons for beating up on Wood Badge. As someone who is not anti-Wood Badge, I perceive the frequency of such comments as being rooted in simply a dislike of the program. To use a similar analogy. I'm someone who will never be able to attend a week long resident camp. As such, I will never be a member of the OA. Yet, I hear about the OA constantly. OA events, OA inductions, OA campfires, OA ceremonies, OA drumming circles, and the list goes on. I won't ever be eligible to be part of that restrictive club. Yet, I've never once thought abut complaining about the OA, is practices, or what it does. I've never complained about troop events that we've had to cancel because the Scouts and leaders had to run off to an OA event. There are buildings and areas at our camp that I will never be able to leverage because they belong to the OA. It's a restrictive club that I won't ever be invited to join. Yet, I don't look for opportunities to complain about the Big Deal that is the OA. I don't complain about the conversations that they have or events that they do. It just is what it is.

You guys kill me. Can we not miss an opportunity to bash Wood Badge? Wood Badge has beading ceremonies for one reason - tradition. There have been beading ceremonies for years now and so it's just part of what happens. Wood Badge has the unique combination of a lot of history, takes a lot of effort to complete, and has some unique bling. Most beading ceremonies I've attended give a short overview of Wood Badge, what the person did, and then simply give a overview of the bling, it's significance, and then present it. Most beading ceremonies I've seen at a unit level are typically about 10 minutes. They happen once every few years. Often a bunch of experienced Scouters show up and present the beads. It makes for something of a unusual and notable occurrence. In my son's time in Cub Scouts, we saw two beadings. No one complained.

He's one motivated Scout:

I'm happy for us to agree to disagree on this. Scouting is a youth program in which adults volunteer their time. Taking a minute every so often to publicly say - "you did something notable" - to an adult volunteer is a good thing and it's good for youth to see that. This is especially true for the direct contact leaders. Keep it short, sweet, and to the point. These things don't happen too often, so taking 30 seconds to recognize an adult who receives some adult recognition or award is a good thing. Yes - it's a youth program for the youth. But I think we can insert an appropriate pat on the back for our volunteers every so often.

I disagree. A unit is a community- youth who participate in the program, adults who volunteer to make it happen. Taking a few minutes periodically to appropriately recognize the hard work and accomplishments of the adults sets a very good example for the youth. It sets a good example for other adult volunteers. It shows adults and Scouts in the room that the leaders in that unit are investing in their skills as a leader. It provides an example for Scouts to mimic as they themselves present awards. Finally, it's nice for a parent to get some recognition in front of their child. To be clear though - the operative phrase is appropriate recognition. A lot of substance can be conveyed in 30-60 seconds.

Another possibility is to spread out the awards over many roundtables. Perhaps each May you do Cub Scout leader awards. September you do Scouts BSA leader awards. February Venturing leader awards. December district leader awards. etc... Other months a quick recognition of training awards or WB beadings. Make it a 5-10 minute segment at tops. I like leveraging Roundtable in this fashion for awards for several reasons: We are leveraging an existing event to present an award. There isn't another meeting you have to attend It provides the opportunity for leaders to demonstrate appropriate awards ceremonies. It provides training through examples. It provides a motivation to newer leaders It focuses on Roundtable as the monthly district meeting. Just as a troop meeting of pack meeting has multiple purposes, so too can Roundtable.

There's two different audiences for this event: unit volunteers who normally do not participate in district activities district volunteers The reality is that unit volunteers who are otherwise not participating in district activities are very unlikely to show up for another event. We all have more meeting and requests for our time than we can keep up with - and something like a district awards banquet isn't high on many people's priority lists. Since the point of these events is to celebrate leaders, the trick is to find another way to celebrate them other than some sort of formal dinner or event. For district volunteers, these sort of events provide an opportunity for fellowship with other district volunteers. It's no different than unit leaders who might get together for a fun event at the unit level. However, even for these people - more meetings are yet more time away from family. So, while they enjoy getting together - for the more committed district volunteers it is difficult to justify another meeting. My recommendation - fit your district awards into an existing district event. Roundtable is a great venue for this. Create a 20 minute program to award all your district awards and make it an item at a roundtable meeting. Don't take over roundtable and don't make it longer - simply "borrow" some time before breakouts. Perhaps that month announcements are kept to 5 minutes of critical items and everything else done via. a handout. Make that 20 minutes of awards the most meaningful 20 minutes you possibly can. Short announcements of each winner with a fun picture and personal note about each. Short, succinct, and meaningful.

Ahh - thanks! Side question - what is a national roundtable and how does one attend?

I'm not seeing in the attached docs where the council holds the unit's money. The problem that I can see that councils face is what happens if a unit spends more money than it has. I assume that in this case the council is left being responsible for the debts of that unit. I would think that in this case the council would want some sort of audit oversight of the unit's spending. However, if a council tries to enforce the kinds of spending rules on units that they do in other places, then it will certainly create an off the books system. My guess is that councils will want to avoid this if at all possible. Other than continuing for these units to exist, there is no benefit to the council for all this added effort.

In practice I agree with you. However, I would welcome the BSA to show some leadership on questions like this. Not a formal document - I certainly don't need a training on the use of professional titles. But, I would welcome consistency in the BSA examples and would like to see them go with the more traditional Mr./Mrs.. The use of professional titles shouldn't be a cause of discomfort for youth, but if it is for some reason then the units should do the right thing. In fact, casually using Mr./Mrs. in Scouting is a great way for youth to see them used in a very relaxed setting. Heck, as a Committee Chair I'd often called Scouts Mr. [name]. It wasn't formal or stiff and was just as comfortable as using first names. Along the way it showed a certain amount of respect to the youth.

My first time being called Mr. was when I went on my younger brother's Boy Scout campout during college. The Scoutmaster refered to me as Mr. around the Scouts. It was surreal for a moment, but upon thinking about it I realized it was the right thing to do. In our Pack and Troop it has always been Mr./Mrs./Dr./etc. unless someone specifically asks to be called by their first name. Usually it seems like it's the Cubmaster or Scoutmaster who wants that. Rarely does anyone get Dr. unless they are an MD and it is well known. We've had leaders who are PhDs, but folks almost never know it and so no one ever uses it. Using Mr./Mrs./etc. seems like a part of the Adult Association method of Scouting to me.

You are absolutely correct that this requires a mind shift. Too many volunteers above the district level are too beholden to what they think are the rules. This is absolutely where a council could have a servant leadership mindset. They could be looking for a way to help the volunteer resolve the problem - regardless of whether they know the rules. 95% of this discussion on the past few pages is doable today, under current BSA accounting rules and practices. The reason this doesn't happen and doesn't work is that many volunteers are simply not aware of how the process really works. As such, they simply do not know what questions to ask and where to advocate.

I'm not actually sure what we're debating here. I'm not suggesting that districts be financially separate entities. I'm suggesting that the council budgets be more friendly to district operations. Specially, in this case there is no reason that a council could not track a line item internally that grows and shrinks based on district expenditures. If a district has a surplus at the end of a year that money amount could be placed as a line item in the next year's budget for a district to draw upon. A district is effectively nothing more than a council operating committee that is responsible for a geographic area. Just as the council program committee has a budget, so too does a district. The difference is that districts have a bit more autonomy than many other council committees. That autonomy is a two way street as districts are often less effective at navigating things like council budgeting processes. There is absolutely nothing in the council budgeting process that disfavors districts. When I was reviewing our district budgets, there was absolutely nothing in our programming that the budgeting process structurally prevented us from doing. Most of our volunteers just had never bothered to learn how to navigate it. Further, there is a behavior that I have seen most of our district volunteers that they do not realize how much authority they really do have. Our district camporee chair could have built a budget that allocated for acquisition of equipment and could have worked with the various folks in the council accounting structure to figure out how to amortize that over several years. But, no one ever does that kind of stuff. In the context of this discussion, my proposal is that council budget chairs do real outreach to district volunteers to make sure they understand the budgeting process. That national create content on how councils should effectivly engage with districts in the budgeting process so that districts have the resources they need to demonstrate value to units & to individual Scouts.

Respectfully, you are making this too complicated. All that is being suggested is that the council maintain a line item for each district which is the amount of the current district surplus. At the end of the year, any district surplus adds to/subtracts from that line item. If a district knows it has a surplus, it can draw from it for programming. Districts are still a subdivision of the council and the council still maintains all the records and accounts. Many of the posts suggest some sort of animosity between districts and council. There is more casual neglect than their really is any true animosity. Our council finance volunteers don't have any real district experience and so they just don't know what they don't know.

I still think the right answer is not all that complicated. It can all start by simply splitting the income/expenses so that it enforces certain behaviors. program fees go to pay for programming donations can go to either pay for growing scouting, unit support, or programming - it's at the discretion of the person who donates. Create a hard wall between the different sides financially. In the council's annual report, get them to specify income, expenses, and what they did for each aspect.

You are correct - this could be easily done, even in the current structure. There just needs to be a reason to want to do it. Primary reason that it doesn't happy now is that many council budget committees are oblivious to the need.

Right. I've been through the budgeting process from a district perspective a few times. What I noticed in that was that the council team is well established. The district team doesn't even know how to navigate this process. When I last did it, the council budget committee turned to the accountant in the office for info, the accountant turned to the DE. The DE turned to the district chair and said "here's what I'm submitting - what do you think?". The district chair is new enough that they don't know that they should even be advocating for something more. What is really needed is either: a council budget committee that wants to build a strong district funding approach a district committee who knows the process and can effectively advocate for their needs I do believe the current system can function to allow for districts to get better funding. However, it is not setup to encourage stronger funding of districts. This is where I think national can really help. They could create a small series of info sessions/trainings that highlight how a district should get funded. They could create information on what a good district budget looks like. In short, I think National could show some leadership on the topic - help all the volunteers who make this work to better understand how to create effective funding mechanisms that show value to scouts.

Sort of. Districts are not separate from councils. In the BSA structure, a district is just a subdivision of a council. The council can maintain a fund which has money left over from last year, but different parts of a council don't immediately just have an account with left over money. i.e., the council camporee doesn't have left over funds it can spend next time. Districts are no different than any other part of the council. The challenge for districts is that they don't tend to advocate for funds from the council budgeting process that really could improve their programming. Assuming most councils are like mine, districts maintain very meager budget items because they simply don't have a seat at the table and request those funds. It's a sort of institutional neglect that goes on. Council budget committees are not accustomed to asking districts for this info. Districts are not used to advocating for it. I see it in our council clearly - both volunteer teams (district programming & council budget) are doing what they think is expected and don't realize that there are questions not being asked. The DEs facilitate this process because they know to simply play the game as defined. This is an area where the BSA could do a better job. Instead of setting up a system where districts need to go fight the council budgeting process, they could setup a system where the expectation is that council budget committees are actively trying to determine what funds districts need. This would require a mind shift, but it is one that I suspect long term would be well worthwhile.

Thanks. That's the kind of thing I was looking for. Districts really do need to be able to build up some funds and equipment to improve the programs. Districts are where units and Scouts most interact with Scouting outside of their unit. In my mind this isn't all that expensive to do either. The only real expense to any of this is a little bit of staff time. Allocating some percentage of program fees to districts to build up local equipment I suspect would go a long way too. To your point - buying rope, fixing the axle - these are small things that a modest expenditure from program fees would allow for. Perhaps if national required that when a program fee is collected, some % be allocated to districts for equipment and expenses to strengthen programming.

@MattR When Scouters talk about council value add, they often come back to program activities. Almost all program activities are driven by council/district volunteers today. I'm all for increasing the council focus and shifting financial resources towards enabling volunteers to be successful. I suspect that the best way for this to happen is for a council to spend more money on: district/council volunteer training district/council volunteer support improve council infrastructure for activities Beyond that, I wonder - what should a council do to help volunteers organize camporees? What should a council do to help volunteers organize a pinewood derby?

I'm sorry to hear your council is struggling so significantly. Clearly your district/council volunteer structure is broken. District & Council programming is the purview of volunteers. If the district programming is boring and the council programming nonexistent, that lies in the fault of the volunteer ranks. For whatever reason, these volunteers either are don't exist in your council, are not up to your level or expectations, or are not fulfilling those roles. Somewhere in your council some volunteers need to start focusing on fixing this situation. I know in your case you are trying to get involved and the SE is blocking you. I cannot fathom why it is happening in your specific case and it is unfortunate. Being a unit volunteer for a long time and now a district volunteer for a long time, I've been struck by the reality that there is really a continuum of volunteerism that is needed. For a district to provide interesting programming to units, it needs capable people to do this. If a district is in a scenario where it is only being populated by a few "old guard" then of course district programming is going to stink. Camporees need strong Scouters to organize them. Professionals cannot run off good volunteers just as units shouldn't refuse to participate. You strike me as a Scouter who really wants to help and it is unfortunate that you are being blocked.

Sorry - what I meant is that our council is not trying to do anything shady with fees in this time. There is no pressure to increase charges for events, not pressure to set unusual refund deadlines, no pressure to have events just for the money. Yes - our council has not reduced the program fee. I am certain that many parents are frustrated that they need to continue t pay the program fee.

The problem that councils have with any of these sorts of discussions is that it is very difficult for a council to show value to an individual Scout. Scout executives, district executives, and mich of the staff are focused on sustaining the council. The money that a scout pays in terms of fees almost entirely goes to pay for amorphous things like DE salaries or office expenses or depreciation of equipment. Very little of that has any tangible benefit to youth. My recommendation has been that councils need to establish two different parts of their budget. One part pays for is funded by big donors and has a professional fundraising staff. This is the part of the budget that should pay for growth and membership activities. Let the big donors recognize that they are writing big checks to help grow scouting. The other part of the budget is the directly applicable stuff to kids. Make it clear that fees at camp or camp improvements or the district camporee are made possible because of council fees.