ParkMan

Mea Culpa. My bad. I was following the conversation and it came to keeping meetings fun. Read the comment about boring district folks and wondered what advice was out there for how a new Cubmaster deals with outside presentations like FoS. That's all.

Fully agree. I've been wondering of the OA would be better off by ncreasing the requirements and then combining chapters and perhaps even doing away with them.

Thanks for the feedback folks! I welcome more. I know many look at FoS negatively. As a leader in a big pack and big troop, I've come to understand that the council relies on FoS contribution to pay for services that we use, so we're happy to encourage our parents to contribute. When I got involved, we treated FoS like an obligation and our families could tell. As our leadership spoke more positively about it, we saw contributions go up dramatically. I recognized that families that enjoy Scouting are often happy to financially support it. So, I'm just looking for ideas how to do the presentations effectivly.

I'd be interested to hear ideas of how people have still accomplished things like FoS presentations, but kept the meeting fun and lively. Anyone ever tried sending the Scouts outside for a game while the district folks did the FoS presentation?

As a former Cubmaster who later moved on to a role in a Boy Scout troop - I really like this suggestion. When I was a Cubmaster I didn't get it. Our meetings had a formula. Yes, I tried to keep announcements to a minimum. Yes, I tried to add fun into the meeting. But, we had a very traditional flow of announcements, a skit or two, some awards, a skit, and then an activity. Watching a troop and realizing that a troop is "essentially" an older version of the pack, I'd get rid of pretty much all announcements. I'd make awards short and sweet - only presenting cloth awards. The meeting ought to be almost entirely Scouts doing stuff. Working on a project, playing games, having an activity. Opportunities for Scouts to do fun stuff - skits, jokes, etc. - but not so many as to have Scouts sitting the entire time. Keep it active, keep it fun.

I'd be interested in hearing specific ideas that packs & troops have done that have resulted an in increased draw for Scouting. Where have you faced losses to sports and other activities, done something to address that, and been successful? Thanks in advance

Sure - but why would anyone want a professional to get involved anyways? Locally we've got really great professionals and I like them a lot. But, they've got no more insight into complicated leader issues like this than any other Scouter. But if I had a unit issue like this one, I'd rather have an experienced SM or CC to go to.

I would suggest that as a SM or CC, you'll need to get comfortable dealing with these kinds of situations. Don't worry about BSA registrations and recharters. Don't worry about what is the COR's job and what is yours. Assume control of the situation and have a plan to deal with it. As a member of the key three, this is your troop. I would stop letting parents bully the volunteers (including yourself). Tell them privately, tell them in a meeting - it doesn't matter. This kind of nonsense is unwelcome in your troop. End of discussion. I'd go back to the Stages of Team Development material from Wood Badge. You've got an adult team that is clearly Storming. In the case of Storming, the leader (presumably you) needs to provide clear instruction to the group on what the goal and objective is here. If the BSA were to develop more materials on this, I think my expanded agenda would be something like: Senior Leaders need to set the tone. Newer leaders look to experienced leaders for direction. In the absence of that, people start getting inventive Senior Leaders need to be strong leaders. Always be open to new ideas. But, when the group starts storming it's time to step out and provide some direction. Occasionally you have to tell people to knock it off. Your case is pretty normal and very solvable. But, it's going to take some leadership to make it happen. You could certainly say "I've had enough" and let another take the leadership role. Or, you could do it. I think either can work fine here.

We seem to have someone attend about once every two or three years. We get a mix of ASMs & Committee Members to attend. In our case, we're a bigger troop (about 80 scouts) and so some of our committee positions tend to be pretty active. That's not to say we're an adult led troop - not at all. When I started as CC, the committee was pretty much a few folks who did it all. Over 5 years, I made a concerted effort to push ownership out to the volunteers on the committee. As a result, many of those volunteers have taken a lot of initiative in what they do. So, in the past 5 years we've had 3 Committee Members attend WB. They always came back and took whatever they were doing to a next level of depth. For example, one of our attendees was responsible for adult leader training. This then led to a broadening of that role into one where she started thinking about how to train non-leaders. She then organized a new parent orientation day. She started having info sessions for parents on topics like patrol method, advancement, & summer camp. That has all really enriched what our committee is able to bring to the Scouts, Scoutmaster, & families. So, I'm a big fan of having Committee Members attend.

I was a CC for about 5 years - it was a lot of fun. It's one of the very few roles where you get to be plugged into everything in the life of that troop. Some things I learned along the way: A big part of the CC's job is preparing for the future. It helps to be looking ahead 6-12 months. What's next year's recruiting plan? What's the budget look like? Who will be stepping down and need to be replace? Get along with the Scoutmaster as much as possible As CC, you lead the adult team. You've got to provide some high level vision for the troop adults. Are we Scout led? Do we want to grow? What's our focus? You've often got to be a voice of reason. Do you have parents showing up who are causing problems? If so, you'll need to stop that. The Scoutmaster runs the program. Make sure you agree with the Scoutmaster's vision and then give him/her space to make it happen. Always be looking for adult volunteers - activities coordinator, treasurer, advancement coordinator, STEM coordinator, merit badge coordinator, Eagle adviser, ASMs, etc... The best thing I learned was just keep my ears open. Talk to people, see what they like to do. Then match up interests with needs in the troop. Over a year or two, you'll get plenty of people to help by doing that. Delegate, delegate, delegate. Never take on a task that another can do. Hold regular troop committee meetings with a prepared agenda. Keep it positive. Every troop has issues. The key is to not focus on the negatives, but celebrate the positives. Along the way clean up negatives when you can. Encourage Wood Badge - seriously. Wood Badge has the knack of giving a volunteer a sense of purpose. It's great to have you treasurer go to Wood Badge and then come back more charged up then before. Wood Badge tickets always benefited our troop. Oh, and by the way - have fun!

I concur. You all discussed this, reviewed it, and made a decision. Your authority as a leader will be hurt much more by changing this back. Stick with your current plan.

Might be a NJ thing

Do you think it's a case of: A. scouting doesn't have the value of sports? -- or -- B. the typical troop program doesn't have the value of the typical sports team?

Thanks. We can't really do anything about the financial interests. If parents are going for a sport scholorship, then more power to them. As for being "done Scouting" - this is in our power to address.

So, I'd peel the onion here. Why are they willing to choose sports and walk away from scouting?

This is why we have assistants. If you've got a Scout who can be there enough to provide leadership to a function, then let him lead the function. If he has to miss 50% of the events, then no big deal. Take a more junior scout, make him/her Asst. of whatever POR that scout has. Benefits: The Scout learns to balance the realistic demands of life. A younger scout gets to learn from a senior scout Older scout learns delegation The job probably gets done better Negatives: None?

In short, no-one. The leaders of these activities understand that to field a team, they need participation. So, they draw a line and say "no participation, no team." Most of use Scouters are not willing to do the same. So, in short, for the most part, we do it to ourselves.

I'm willing to concede that I'm in the minority opinion on this one. The literature encourages the idea that the CC supervises the unit leaders. If a volunteer's supervisor cannot remove said volunteer, then that puts the supervisor in a pretty weak position. But, this isn't the point of the topic - so I'm not looking to push the point. I'm just adding it for context. More likely, what I think happens is a parent knows someone in a district role. They ask their opinion on an issue which then gets related as fact. Too many unit leaders go along with it because they don't realize that the real organizational structure in the BSA is one of an inverted pyramid where the unit's are in charge.

BTW - can we once and for all recognize: The BSA makes very clear that within a unit, the Scoutmaster has the final say on advancement. District Volunteers can not overrule unit level volunteers with their unit.

Goodness - sounds like you've got a real mess on your hands with this troop. Two points: The COR absolutely does have to sign the new Scoutmaster's application. A position change requires a new adult application. Until such time that the COR signs the application of your successor, you're the Scoutmaster in your Council's & National's eyes. The Troop Committee can not fire a SM. The COR can absolutely fire the SM. There's some difference of opinion on this, but I believe the CC can fire the Scoutmaster. But the unit committee - nope. The best they can do is to agree they want a new Scoutmaster and then bring that to the CC & COR. But, reading your post my take is that you've got an out of control adult team. Politics, bickering, parents calling district volunteers, etc. Sounds like someone needs to tell these adults to knock it off. Myself, I think you need to be stronger with these adults. If the CC and COR are happy with what you're doing, then great. Keep going and soldier on. But, you do need to tell these parents that they need to stop with the politics or find a new troop. This kind of nonsense kills units.

Interesting observation. I'll admit that district service often feels more like a job than my real job. I need to remember sometime to start a topic "How can we make District Service fun?" I'd love to hear ideas.

18 years is an amazing amount of time to volunteer! Thank you for your many years of service. I'd encourage you to step back and re-evaluate. In the process, hand off your responsibilities and take a sabbatical. Think about where your fun is. Maybe you're really done, maybe you decide these something else you'd enjoy doing. But, it's hard to do that while you're still committed. But whatever you do, find your fun in it.

Ok - uncle. I give up. If the BSA basketball team got so ticked off at the GSUSA basketball team that they refused to give them the ball I don't think I'd care either.

This hardly seems like improper behavior. If the lawyers had hidden information or not properly disclosed what is required than that is improper. But, stalling is simply a tactic. Yes, the lawyers employed tactics to make it more difficult for the opposing side to make their case. There was nothing illegal here as far as I can tell. In sports, this is simply playing defense. "The best offense is a good defense". The judge finally had enough and told them to stop - so what? Yes, the Oath & Law provides us guidance on how to conduct ourselves. This line of thought suggests to follow the Oath and Law an athlete should not try play aggressive defense. a business person should not try to take market share from a rival. A solider should not take advantage of available means to defeat the other side. If there was true illegal or immoral activity here, then call them out. But, the complaint here is akin to criticizing a basketball player for throwing an elbow in a game. What Scouting purpose does it serve to look for fault here?

What specifically do you think the lawyers did wrong and what do you think should be be done to be in the character of the Oath & Law? Why does it not reflect poorly on the Scouting community that we sit here and criticize the lawyer's defending the BSA for simply doing their job?