pargolf44067

I have an interesting dilemma, one which might be a good one to have. We have 12 new scouts that have bridged or are bridging (11 bridged in the last week, one will bridge in a couple of weeks). In addition, we have a couple of older scouts that have recently joined scouts or transferred from another troop, that for all intents and purposes are new scouts, which gives me 14 "new" scouts. Do I make this one or two patrols? My initial thought was to make them one, but the more I thought about it, two seems to make some sense. My issue with two is that we have three packs that sent scouts to us. One pack bridged seven scouts, another bridged four and the third bridged one, but he has good friends from the pack that bridged four. So it would be easy to break the patrols into two seven member patrols, with the pack that bridged seven being their own and the other five in the other patrol with the two older scouts. My fear is that this will create patrol cliques. Any ideas or thoughts? Thanks, Bill

We actually make the parents go with the first timers to our polar bear campout. Last week at our district Klondike (which was only a one day event), there was a troop whose boys had only jeans with no thermals on underneath (it was a high of 20 with snow on the ground). One of our ASMs was judging their patrol for cooking and said two of the boys were covered in snow and looked miserable because they were so cold. He said something to one of their leaders and the leader defended them by saying that they were wearing flannel jeans. This isn't just Boy Scout preparedness, this is common sense to dress warmly and not play in the snow!!

I agree with most posters on this thread. Not a big fan of winter camping. Next month is our "Polar Bear" camp where the boys make their own shelter and cook their own food and camp out for the night. My son has done it for two years. Last year was my first as SM, so I went. I only do it for the boys. I had a father tell me this week how this is his favorite campout. The man has to be nuts! We prepare the boys for the prior 4-6 weeks on how to handle the cold. Last year it got down to 3 degrees on the night we went--the coldest night of last winter!! I look forward to February 10th with dread. Bill

As an FYI, there is a boy in my younger son's Web II den that I did a SM conference with who didn't want to join Boy Scouts. I had a 10 minute conversation with him about the differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and mentioned that he might at least want to give it a chance. I told him about the different activities that the troop does and how much fun everyone has and he said he would think about it. Well, I talked with the den leader last night and she had talked to his parents this week and he is now very excited and can't wait to join Boy Scouts. I mention this only because if the SM has a chance to talk with the boy about the things in Boy Scouts (as opposed to the den leader), the boy might change his mind. Bill

Tom, I would agree with Lisabob on this one as well. I have been talking individually with the scouts from our two packs that are trying to earn their AOL. I would not count the SM "stopping" to talk to the group of boys as a SM conference. Bill

I would be curious to know why he is not continuing on. As a Scoutmaster on the Boy Scout side and a committee person on the Cub Scout side I always encourage our Webelos to at least try Boy Scouts for a while to see if they like it. I think by the time they get to the Webelos II year (and I know this is true for my younger son), they are getting bored with scouts because they are still meeting at pack meetings and such with the first graders. My younger son sees what his older brother is doing in Boy Scouts and he is really looking forward to crossing next month, but if the boys don't know exactly what goes on in Boy Scouts, they might think it is more of the same. I hope the boy changes his mind and at least gives Boy Scouts a try. Bill

We are looking to put in for the lottery for Florida Sea Base in 2008. We are thinking about the Out Island Adventure on Big Munson. Has anyone done that program recently, and, if so, what did you think? We are in northern Ohio, so would flying down be the best way to get there, or would driving be any better. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill

Congratulations on the new position. I was in your position about a year ago, and I was never in Scouting and wasn't a big camping person until my older son got into scouts about five years ago. Advice that was given already is good. Find people who complement your weaknesses and, above all, remember that it is for the boys, not for the adults who want to help. Turning around a troop to become boy-led is very challenging and I am still going through the process as we speak. Utilize this forum as it is a good source of information. Keep your spirits up and again, welcome aboard! Bill

We just finsihed a campout invited our two "feeder" packs Webelos II dens to come. We did some items that were geared towards Webelos and helped them earn some of their Webelos pins. We had seven boys from the one pack and one boy from the other pack. I got nothing but positive feedback about the campout from both the boys and their parents in the troop and the boys and their parents in the pack. In fact, one of the boys in my son's den that went wasn't sure that he even wanted to stay in Cub Scouts for the final year. Yesterday morning when we were packed up and leaving, his dad campe up to me and said, "Well, I think you have recruited a Boy Scout for next year." That alone made my day, but there were several other positive comments made. For those that didn't make this campout, we forwarded our schedule on to the two packs' leaders and offered that the Web IIs could come and visit for the day. I think that it is really important that the boys see what the troop does on campouts, because, by the time they are Web IIs they get somewhat bored with the cub scout program, and it is important for them to see how different boy scouts are from cub scouts. Bill

We are having our campout with two packs' Webelos in a couple of weeks. We have planned to work on Naturalist/Forester as well as Map and Compass. The scouts will teach some of the finer points of scout skills (firebuilding, knots, first aid) and we are planning to do a geocache that is based in the scout camp where we are going. We will put some Webelos in each patrol and they will help with the cooking and clean up. We are not doing anything specifically for the Webelos (we have first years' that need the hiking and nature requirements yet) and we will hopefully show the Webelos what a true Scout campout is about.

I posted this on another thread, but it seems more appropriate here: I looked at brianbuf's website and there were some interesting ideas, especially regarding updating the merit badges. However, the idea that people will jump to join Scouting because we reference the mammoth from Ice Age instead of Akela and that we make our uniforms look like athletic uniforms is a bit naive. Somewhere else on this forum someone mentioned that they wouldn't wear their uniform to school 30 years ago, so this is not a phenomenon of today. One of the questions asked at the two Boards of Review for my last two Eagles was "Would you wear your uniform to school tomorrow and allow the principal to announce that you made Eagle?" Both of my Eagle Scouts, who are really into Scouting and are good scouts both said no. What this says to me is that even though they wouldn't wear the uniform to school they still want to be in scouts for the fun and the things it teaches them. My son won't wear his uniform to school, but he does wear "Class B" shirts from past summer camps. The "problem" with Scouts today is a combination of things that updating MBs and changing references will do nothing to improve. If a troop or pack is providing an interesting program, the people who are interested in Scouts will participate. Scouts encourages family participation, especially at the Cub level. So many parents today just want to drop their kids off at an event (athletic practice) and then pick them up an hour later that Scouts just isn't conducive to that. Trust me, I coach soccer as well as am a SM and I have seen that. In addition, a lot of parents nowadays, especially dads, look at sports as their child's way to glory as an adult. I appreciate the teamwork and skills that sports teaches. My younger son plays soccer and basketball and is really into both. My older son is into music and plays with the school band, and that teaches a great deal. There are just certain things that scouts teach that these other activities don't. But if a child and/or parent doesn't believe that then changing uniforms and references/icons are not going to change that. Sorry I rambled on. Bill

I looked at brianbuf's website and there were some interesting ideas, especially regarding updating the merit badges. However, the idea that people will jump to join Scouting because we reference the mammoth from Ice Age instead of Akela and that we make our uniforms look like athletic uniforms is a bit naive. Somewhere else on this forum someone mentioned that they wouldn't wear their uniform to school 30 years ago, so this is not a phenomenon of today. One of the questions asked at the two Boards of Review for my last two Eagles was "Would you wear your uniform to school tomorrow and allow the principal to announce that you made Eagle?" Both of my Eagle Scouts, who are really into Scouting and are good scouts both said no. What this says to me is that even though they wouldn't wear the uniform to school they still want to be in scouts for the fun and the things it teaches them. My son won't wear his uniform to school, but he does wear "Class B" shirts from past summer camps. The "problem" with Scouts today is a combination of things that updating MBs and changing references will do nothing to improve. If a troop or pack is providing an interesting program, the people who are interested in Scouts will participate. Scouts encourages family participation, especially at the Cub level. So many parents today just want to drop their kids off at an event (athletic practice) and then pick them up an hour later that Scouts just isn't conducive to that. Trust me, I coach soccer as well as am a SM and I have seen that. In addition, a lot of parents nowadays, especially dads, look at sports as their child's way to glory as an adult. I appreciate the teamwork and skills that sports teaches. My younger son plays soccer and basketball and is really into both. My older son is into music and plays with the school band, and that teaches a great deal. There are just certain things that scouts teach that these other activities don't. But if a child and/or parent doesn't believe that then changing uniforms and references/icons are not going to change that. Sorry I rambled on. Bill

I just wanted to post how proud I was of my boys in the troop for participating with the local VFW last Monday in a flag retirement ceremony in commemoration of the fifth anniversary of 9/11. I was concerned with how they would act and if they would be respectful and solemn as they participated. They were excellent! The ceremony was very good and we received several compliments from the members of the VFW that participated telling us how well behaved the boys were and what a wonderful job they did. A lot of people in today's world say that kids, especially teenagers, have no respect for this country and the sacrifices people have made for this country. I was happy to show the people that have fought for this country that Scouts, in general, and my scouts in particular, do have respect for the country, for the flag and for the people that have sacrificed for their country. I can say that in my first year as SM, this is one of my proudest moments! Bill

I agree with Eamonn. I stepped in a year ago for a SM that was very much beloved. He is a great guy actually, though a lot of the way he was running the troop was not in line with BSA. He was honest and didn't do anything even remotely sketchy. After he stepped down, he said he wouldn't be coming around much so as to let the boys know that I was the person to come to, not him. I mistakenly tried the "this troop is now boy-led" and it didn't work out as I expected. This August we had our annual troop planning meeting (the first one in years) and it went better than I expected. Our SPL has grown significantly since last October and our PLC is finally understanding what it is supposed to do. However, I still feel that I went overboard in changing everything right away, and I feel that we would be further along now if I had done a little more training. Just keep in mind that it will not become the "perfect" troop overnight, if ever. It has been almost a year and our troop still has growing pains! Good luck as SM!

Thanks everyone for your posts and ideas. Fuzzy Bear, I understand your comment, however, as I said, I am trying to turn this troop back into boy led. When you don't have boys that have experience of leading meetings, it does take a while. Our SPL, has come so far in the last 10 months, it is amazing. And he does realized that the meetings are boring as well, and is trying to come up with ideas as well.

Thanks for all the good ideas. I am coming up on my first anniversary of being SM and the Troop Program Features were never used before. I am trying to get our PLC to try and use this as a guideline for all meetings. I know it takes time to turn a ship, just was a little frustrated the other night. The idea for smaller groups is good, but I didn't want to break them up at the first meeting. We just went through a reshuffling of our patrols, and I am trying to get them to actually operate as patrols, yet another thing that wasn't done in the past. I am hoping that some of the issue was the "first meeting back" bugaboo!

Last night was the first meeting of the "new" scout year. We take August off for family time away from scouting (although we had enough events in August that it wasn't "time off"). The PLC and I had a meeting a couple of weeks ago to plan the year, including the first month of meetings. Well, last night came and we had our ideas of what we wanted to do and the boys seemed bored. We had some "house cleaning" to do and we talked of some upcoming events, as well as a flag retirement ceremony that we are doing with our local VFW in two weeks. The SPL and I were trying to get across how important and solemn the occasion should be. While we were talking we had other boys talking (including one PL) and not listening. We then discussed a camporee that is at the end of the month that we might participate in and we were trying to get some idea of interest. There seemed to be some interest, but then as the SPL was going through the events the talking and not paying attention started again. At the end of the night I went home very frustrated, thinking that our meetings have become too boring and that we need to do something different. I am looking for some ideas to help liven up our meetings so that the boys pay attention and start to enjoy them meetings. When we went through our annual planning, we talked about keeping a theme for the month and tying that in to our camping event. This month hasn't worked that way so far and we really don't want to turn this into another "school" type activity. Any ideas to help keep the scouts interested and engaged during the meetings? Thanks, Bill

When I was a DL, I had the meetings at my house. My younger son's DL now has it at the library in a meeting room. Again, you have to schedule the whole year in advance. My older son's DL had the meetings at his house as well. Kind of nice to have it at home, that way if you forget something, you are at home already.

In regards to our specific campout in October, we are actually cabin camping so the sleeping arrangements by tent aren't an issue. In general, I don't think there would be an issue with the boys tenting together. My Webelo son did Webelo resident camp this summer and slept with a couple of other Webelos. So, in my opinion, I don't think having the boys stay together is an issue. My son's old troop also went to an all city event called "All Scouts" weekend and the Webelos were allowed to camp one night, and they tented with each other and not their parents.

Our camporee in September (as well as Klondike) has invited the Webelos to come and observe, but not participate. They will be allowed to do the various activities after the Boy Scout patrols are done, at the discretion of the adults running the event, and they will be allowed to camp within a Troop campsite.

As a SM, I have put together a campout for the Webelos II dens of our two "feeder" packs to attend with us in October. This is something that was done with my son's old troop and the pack he was in. This also helps the younger Boy Scouts (since most of our older ones have football or band during the fall) to get some experience with campout planning and leading. I told the den leaders that a parent needed to come with each Webelos scout (a good way to recruit the parents as well), however, what should the procedure be if a parent cannot/does not want to come. I would hate for the Webelos Scout to miss out on a troop camping opportunity because of the parent's inability to make it to a campout. Any thoughts? Bill

Here is something that has come up in our troop along the same lines. We have a boy whose two older brothers are in the troop already. He is a Web I this year, however, his father says he will be 11 before February (I have not verified this) and wants to cross him into the troop with the Web IIs from this year, thus skipping the entire second year of Webelos. Even if he were to stay in the pack he wouldn't do anything with his den (his brother crossed this year and his den leader didn't see him for over a year-just showed up at Blue and Gold to cross over). This is strictly a convenience thing for his father. He is a grade behind all the boys crossing over this year and I don't know how well he would know any of them. My younger son is part of the group crossing over this year and has tried to befriend this boy on family campouts. Just a personal rant here (not BSA bylaws or anything), but I am a little frustrated that my son went through the full five years of Cubs because of his age, even though it wasn't "convenient" for me, meanwhile this boy because of his age gets to skip out on a year. Okay, done ranting. Any thoughts on how to handle this situation and get the boy to either assimilate with the boys he would be crossing with (I am assuming if he is 11 he would be allowed to cross over). Bill

We had a discussion at our parents/committee meeting regarding insurance coverage for our troop trailer and the equipment in it. There appears to be money set aside from many many years ago in a savings account that is meant to cover the replacement of the trailer and equipment. In my opinion, I don't think there is enough money to cover that as it is. This has become a big topic of discussion as we are trying to figure out what to do with covering the potential loss of the trailer and/or equipment. Looking for feedback as to how other troops handle insurance for troop trailers and equipment (eg, does the CO pick it up in their insurance, does the troop pay for, money set aside, etc.). Any guidance would be appreciated. Bill

E- My family's prayers go out to you and your family. Bill

In our council, starting with the April 2007 recharter, if a troop/pack does not have a trained Scoutmaster or Cubmaster, they will not be allowed to recharter. I can agree to that to some degree, but to have every registered leader be trained or not be allowed to recharter is a problem. First, in my council Outdoor Leader Training is only offered once a year -- the weekend before Halloween. I had to go out of council to get my Outdoor Leader Training. Second, if you have a number of trained people in the troop already, why alienate some other potential adult leaders by having this requirement.