pargolf44067

Eamonn, My thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife. I hope things go well this time. I am with everyone else here, let others worry about Scouting, your worries are much more important. Bill

Wow, fastbow, it seems like your experience with the one troop has really tainted your view of boy led. I agree with Eagledad that you cannot let the boys lead without guiding them to that point. I learned that lesson the hard way when I took over as Scoutmaster of the troop that I am in. Our troop still struggles with the boy led concept, especially when we get a new SPL and ASPL. It is a matter of constant training of the boys. Not that I am any expert on this. You have to give boy led a chance, maybe by visiting another troop that does it a better way. Don't expect perfect meetings, however, you should expect more than you see now. Just my opinion. Don't give up yet. Bill

We actually give our red vests to boys as they make Life rank. It is a tradition within our troop and all the boys know it, so they save their patches to put on the vest. Now, not many boys wear the red vest except to COHs, but it still gives them someplace to put all their patches. Bill

Thanks for all the good advice. I have spoken with the Dad (and the Mom who is also involved in the troop) about this and they realize that he has a problem with anxiety. They have taken him to the doctor about this and they are working on it. The idea of making sure he drinks a lot on the campout is a good one. The issue with this boy (from his parents discussion with me) is that he is not someone who goes out of his way to be social, to the parents' frustration. A lot of times he doesn't want to go places (even outside of scouts) but his parents make him go to a lot of things. When he goes and participates, he does have fun and is glad he has gone, including campouts. In fact, we did Thorns and Roses at the meeting on Monday about the campout and his rose was "the whole campout" and he didn't have any thorns! He went to summer camp and had nights (and some days) where he got very whiny and started to cry, yet, when you ask him what his favorite thing about scouts has been so far, he says summer camp. I guess all boys are different and that is what makes this both challenging and fun. Thanks for the input, Bill

We had a great campout this weekend, our annual Thanksgiving campout (Turkey dinner with all the fixin's). Overall, the camp was a real good camp. Here is the issue. We had a boy at the camp, who has gone to almost all the campouts since he joined our troop in January. His dad has gone on some, but not on others. His dad drove down on Friday night this weekend and came back on Saturday for the afternoon. Every campout the son goes on, he has some sort of breakdown, always claiming he is not feeling well. On the campouts that his dad is on, he goes to his dad and complains. Most of the time his dad keeps him at camp. This weekend was no different. On Friday night the son was complaining of a stomach ache and a headache. I asked him if he had medicine and he didn't. Four of the adults that were staying in the cabin with him (including myself) tried to convince him to just go to bed and he would be fine (he always is). He said that he didn't want to. It was getting extremely late and the adults were tired and wanted to go to bed. Having been on every campout with this boy, I was at the end of my rope with him. I let him call his dad (NOT his mom) but the line was busy, so we convinced him to just go to bed. He got up several times during the night and dragged a couple of different scouts to go to the bathroom. He woke up in the morning and was fine and enjoyed himself throughout the day. When his dad showed up in the afternoon, he told his dad that he wanted to go home after they ate dinner. I explained to his dad what happened and the dad was fine with how we handled it. His dad ended up taking him home, which I didn't object to, since I didn't want the same scene we had the night before (I guess I am a bad SM). This boy seems to have some sort of anxiety issues, as he does a lot of the same things in school (he is in 7th grade). The boys in the troop are great with him, but I am worried that at some point they will get tired of this as well. We have had other scouts that have gotten homesick on their first couple of campouts, but now are having a great time, and, in fact, tend to ignore their dads when they are at camp. Some of the adults in the troop just want to tell the boy to "suck it up" and stop complaining. Trust me, I was on the verge of that on Friday night. However, I don't want to make the kid more upset as we go further. Any ideas on how to handle something like this, because I am getting to the end of my rope in having to deal with this every night at camp. Any comments would be appreciated. Bill

Congratulations to you and your son! Lots of hard work and committment on both his and your part to earn that rank. I, too, look forward to the day that my boys (one Star, almost Life and one a Tenderfoot)hopefully reach that summit! Bill

Oh and on another recruiting front, we have had two boys actually recruit their friends into our troop as 6th and 7th graders, having not been in Cub Scouts. As they get older, as has been said here before, the boys really are the greatest source of recruiting. Bill

Elyria, I agree with you completely. To start talking with the boys, three months before bridging is really, to me, a slap in the face to the CS leaders and boys, especially since I was a CS leader at one point. Getting to know the boys and their leaders at a minimum 18 months before they decide to bridge is important. We only invite the Web 2s on the overnight campout just because of space. However, I have invited leaders and their boys to come to any of our meetings or campouts to just observe and meet the boys. I have also volunteered to come and speak to the boys, and bring my two scouts along to talk with them about Boy Scouts. I think it is really important as they get into their last 18 months to 2 years of Cub Scouts to show them what Boy Scouts is really like. I think a lot of the boys get bored the last couple of years of Cub Scouts and that is where a lot of attrition is. If they see what Boy Scouts is like as they get into the last two years, they might stick it out through the "boring stuff" (no offense to any CS leader here, just SOME of the boys' perspectives)to get to Boy Scouts. There is a very fine line, however, of making them Boy Scouts too early, and thus, bridging over loses some of its excitement. You know, "been there, done that". Bill

Thanks for all the good ideas. Most of the boys I am talking about have been on these trips in the past, so hopefully they have learned their lessons in the wild, so to speak! I like the idea of the jello and putting real hot water in nalgenes at the bottom of their sleeping bags. That is something I had not heard before. We will have to incorporate that in our training this year. The idea of the "tweeners" (a much better term than mine) bringing in their packs to use as a training tool is another good idea. Believe it or not, in Northeast Ohio the last two years we have done our Polar Bear, we have not had enough snow on the ground (where we camp) to do snow huts. Anyway, thanks for all the great ideas! Bill

It is coming up on the time for our older boys to be teaching how to cold weather camp, especially in preparation for our Polar Bear in February. My problem is that some of the "middle boys" for lack of a better term have said that it gets boring once they have heard it a few times. The basics are important for everyone to know, especially our first year boys that are going. However, my question is does anyone have any ideas how to get the second and third year boys, many of whom have heard the same training over and over again, but are not leaders that will show younger kids what to do, to be interested in listening to the training? I was trying to think of some "advanced" cold weather camping lessons that other older boys or adults could share with this group of boys so that they are not bored (their term not mine). Any ideas would be helpful! Thanks, Bill

As a SM, I always try and reach back to the Webelos dens from the Packs in our neighborhood. We schedule a campout each October for the Webelos to go with us and do "Boy Scout" stuff. I get the names of the current WDLs and I know the Cubmasters and I personally invite the Webs to come to the campout. This year we had six Webs come with us (Out of a potential 14). I was a little disappointed, especially since I spoke several times with the WDL of a pack that nobody attended from (he was my son's soccer coach). All of the kids that came were from a den whose leaders have kids in the troop and are involved in the troop. I will continue to have this in the future, however, as a troop's future is only as strong as the boys coming in. Bill

I understand the frustration with Girl Scouts. My daughter was in a Daisy/Brownie troop where we used to live and we dropped because it was so disorganized. After we moved, she joined another Brownie troop and, although it was slightly better, it was still very disappointing for my daughter (no camping or real outdoors stuff). We switched troops this year (my daughter moved up to the next school and all the other girls were still in her old school in 4th grade)to a troop whose leaders are involved in Boy Scouts as well (including one in my troop). It is amazing the difference when you have some people involved that are really organized and let it be somewhat girl run (at least as girl-run as 5th graders can be). My daughter (and wife) are enjoying it much better now!

We had our annual Webelos campout this past weekend with beautiful weather. We spent a couple hours in the morning at the Football HOF and the afternoon we spent hiking around camp for a five mile hike. It was better than perfect weather for a late October campout in Ohio! Bill

Our troop does a monthly newsletter with important information on it. It is done by an adult, the secretary of the committee, with assistance from the boys. We send it out via e-mail and then have a few copies at the troop meeting for those that don''t have e-mail. It is typically one to two pages and the top of it has a two month rolling calendar. Bill

One thing that John brought up was the resources that the council/district is supposed to provide. Our RTs have nothing to do with the theme for the month. We talk about general program issues but not anything about specific themes. I find it interesting that John's RT does talk about themes. Like fgoodwin, our troop never had any theme based meetings or campouts until I became SM. Last year was our first attempt at annual planning with the themes and that was an improvement, although we didn't always follow the themes. This year was a drastic improvement. The PLC felt much more comfortable with what they were doing and they were really into the themes that were picked out. Since we put the schedule out for the year, I have had several adults AND scouts say they are looking forward to the year. Bill

This topic came up on another thread that I started, and thought it would be interesting to see what other groups do regarding the BSA monthly themes that they put out. At our annual planning meeting, I provide the "suggested" themes from BSA and allow our boys to pick the themes they want to do. Typically, we do most of the themes that BSA comes out with, just in different months than they have shown. The exception this year is we have added First Aid for a theme in February. Any other thoughts out there? Bill

John, I show the boys the BSA "suggested" themes for the months and let them decide what they want to do. We had our campouts planned for September through November, and there wasn't an opportunity for fishing. We are doing the Fishing theme in April and then having a fishing campout to finish it out. This is actually an updgrade from what happened in the past in our troop. We actually didn't follow much of a theme pattern when I first joined. It would be interesting to find out how many troops out there actually follow month by month the BSA national theme. I will spin off into a new thread. Bill BTW, thanks for the information!

My troop's theme for September is Orienteering, with the boys putting together a good program that will keep all levels of boys interested. One of the games that was listed to play during the Orienteering theme was Map Symbol Relay, which says to have flash cards with map symbols on them. I have looked all over the internet trying to find AMERICAN topographic map symbol flash cards with no luck. Does anyone on the forum here have any idea where I can get some of these, or is it best to just make them myself. If I need to make them myself, it would be nice to find a place to download them on my computer. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Bill

For the CC that said 14 year olds can't create a schedule. We just held our annual planning meeting yesterday and a bunch of 14 year olds and younger did a great job of planning out our annual schedule with my guidance as Scoutmaster. I found that going from a program that is adult run to boy led cannot happen overnight. Good luck Kenk! Bill

With the large influx of new scouts plus some transfers in the last couple of months our troop is now just over 40 boys with 3 existing mixed age patrols, a "senior" patrol and 2 NSPs. We have approximately 20-25 registered adult leaders, with about 15 that are truly active in the troop.

Okay, I think this belongs in this thread, if not, I apologize in advance. Last night, I was very frustrated with our PLC. We had our meeting last night before the troop meeting and nobody was prepared. Our SPL, normally a really good kid, came in to the meeting and looked as though he could care less about being there. I, as usual, had some ideas to have for discussion regarding the theme for the month. The boys really don't seem to have good ideas to come up with for the weekly meetings. I told them next week I was bringing the program helps for our theme (which they picked at the beginning of the year) and that they really needed to look at the program and try and come up with some good ideas for meetings. As you might know, until I became SM 18 months ago, there was no PLC, so we are still in learning mode. I also realize that I need to make sure the boys get more training in their positions. Sorry for venting, but last night was one of the most frustrating of my tenure. Thanks for listening! Bill

Two things in regards to WTS transition. First, from an individual troop standpoint, I have gone out of my way since being SM of our troop to make contacts with the Web II den leaders of our two "sister" packs in the late spring regarding campouts (including one specifically designed for the Webelos to come to) and meetings. It helped that my younger son was in one of the packs and I was on the committee for that pack. The other pack shares the same CO that we do and I did a better job this year regarding that DL. In addition, this May our council is having a council wide get together, at which Webelos are allowed to be invited to camp with a troop. We have invited our "sister" packs to that as well. From a district/council perspective, our council sends to SMs all the CM and DL names, addresses and phone numbers as well as the Webelos II scouts in the district, so that we can contact if we wish to. In addition, they send the SM information to the packs in the council. Our distrcit did a WTS event in November this year which was very successful. We didn't have a large turnout, but the scouts that came had fun. We had a lot of Webelos I dens and leaders that came, so hopefully next year's event will be better attended. In short, I believe that you need to be in contact with the Webelos I groups in the late spring (right before they become Web IIs). Bill(This message has been edited by pargolf44067)

I was in Cub Scouts for about a month as a youth. So my great memories are all as a leader. The first great memory was seeing my older son cross into Boy Scouts after three years in Cub Scouts and going on his first campout with him. The second was being a den leader for my younger son from Tigers through Bears, moving and having to switch packs (and troops), still being involved in the Cub Scout program and finally seeing him bridge to Boy Scouts two days ago (to the troop of which I am SM). Those were the things that meant the most to me so far in Boy Scouts, along with every minute I get to spend with my boys! Bill

Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. I ended up doing the two different patrols, with seven in each, split the way I mentioned earlier. We did this at our meeting last night. In a couple of weeks we will let them come up with their patrol names and flags, etc. Here is how our troop has started doing patrols. I became SM about 18 months ago. Up until that point the patrols were in age group (first years, second years, etc.). In talking with the PLC and committee, we decided to go more with vertical patrols and reorganized our patrols last August at the annual planning meeting. We did this so the older boys would have an opportunity to see that the younger boys in their patrols were advancing, etc. We are still on the way to a true patrol way of doing things, but I am slowly getting the troop there. My original thoughts for this year was to have this "New Scout Patrol" through at least summer camp and maybe the fall and then split them into the existing patrols. However, I wasn't expecting so many boys, so that may be more difficult and we may have to add an additional patrol to our existing three. I think without having some sort of structure for the new scouts in terms of FCFY or whatever you would use, you have the strong chance of the new scouts getting lost in the shuffle and not advancing properly (at their own speed) and losing interest. I have seen this happen in both my current troop and the troop that my older son belonged to before we moved. Thanks again for all your feedback! Bill

Thanks for the quick responses. I have printed off the FCFY download from the other thread and that is what we are using. I was leaning toward the two patrols set up as I mentioned, but was just looking for confirmation that it was the right way to go. We do have a PLC and we don't rotate PLs in our new scout patrols. Along the lines of the First Class First Year thread, would you have these boys taught things at the same time (obviously other than the Forming the Patrol sections) and then do everything else at the Patrol level? Bill