packsaddle

Yes pchadbo, just like I evidently still can't make myself clear. Beavah, I picked you because you are one the LAST persons I'd ever expect would hope for something like that, thus (or so I hoped) emphasizing the 'hypothetical' nature of the comment. For the record I don't wish that fate on anyone in these forums either (although - assuming I believed in it - I can think of a few persons elsewhere for that list).

OK folks, it's back. Y'all play nice now, y'hear? AZMike, the difference in what I asked about and what you just answered is the 'rate', not the 'number'. I asked about your claim, "Educators, who seem to be the profession with the highest rate of sexual abuse against minors". You just answered, "You sound a little surprised that your profession (I think you mentioned you teach) has the highest number of reported sexual offenses." Given the number of young persons we interact with I'm not the least surprised about 'numbers'. But the rate is a different matter. Your original claim suggests to me that a greater proportion of educators commit sexual abuse against minors than any other profession. The statistics I'm reading in your response, on the other hand, is the proportion of students who have been abused. They aren't the same thing. But if the proportion IS the highest for any profession then, yes, I'm surprised.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

This has been a fun day so far. Scared wife this morning, she thought I was insane...I know what you're thinking, don't say it. Then the frightened looks on the classes...priceless. But once I had informed them of this very important day, we had a few minutes of unencumbered fun. What I'd really like to do sometime is an entire lecture in 'valley girl'. But that's going to take a LOT of practice.

BadenP, I understand, thanks for responding. I admit that perhaps it was indeed premature. That's why I merely parked it in another location for while to see the response. Fscouter is not the issue here. It is clear that there is a special interaction between the two of you. But you must recognize that regardless of how much, hypothetically, Beavah and I sincerely loathe each other, our personal attacks on each other are not going to contribute to the topic itself. And no matter how much Beavah would like to see me dead and in hell, Scouter Terry is the person who will decide my fate as a moderator...Beavah's protestations may be completely in vain. He'd do better for himself and the rest of us to just stick to the topic. Same for me. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Beavah, I'm normally loath to pull the plug on any kind of speech. The rhetoric had gotten personal in that thread (not at me) and it was one of those judgment calls you champion so often. It seemed that the personal attacks were getting in the way of 'substance' (evidence the OP for this thread). I thought it was time to have a 'cooling-off' period. I'll see what the responses are here and from other moderators. BTW, any moderator can overrule me at will. I won't object in the least. Edit: AZMike, yes I'd like to read what you found. SeattlePioneer, I tend to agree with you. Let's wait to see some other opinions.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Just to clarify, it's not deleted. It can come back if you guys really want it back.

Wow, this is dredging up some deep memories...when I was CM I think I remember a pack meeting where CPR training was given to everyone, parents included. We had an EMT guy from the local hospital in the pack and he set everything up. But I don't remember if it was related to advancement or if it was merely a public service kind of thing. It was one of the more interesting pack meetings, mostly because of Fred, the name of the CPR dummy.

This thread is sort of indicative of why that thread was moved. I did it. It wasn't Fscouter. The prejudice in this case is against Fscouter and that is the level of 'discussion' that was being pursued in the thread in question. So after I asked for something better, and got nothing, and after I began to read the earlier responses, and after an eponymous thread attacking Merlyn was started (which I also ended), and after Merlyn then complained about moderation, I took the whole shebang to the corner to have a time out and sulk for a while. If the other moderators will please respond as to their opinions on all that, I will gladly defer to the consensus opinion....including Fscouter to whom I make, on behalf of THESE guys, a humble apology.

It would be nice for these 'discussions' to produce a constructive comment once in a while. Anyone want to give it a try?

I heard from my buddy in MI. He left scouting. Wow! I didn't see THAT coming. It isn't related to this topic but rather some local disagreement. This happened a while back so the sale of the camps is off his radar screen.

NJ, I was struck by the irony that SeattlePioneer (the pot) was even making that accusation against Abel (the kettle). AZMike, "Educators, who seem to be the profession with the highest rate of sexual abuse against minors" I was unaware of this statistic. Could you provide a reference for that claim? Although I do fall into the category of never having reported such abuse, since I've never detected it in either scouts or students. And now I feel so...guilty. I also had not previously thought of college football coaches as 'educators', although I see how people might think that. I guess on that basis, the people who conduct the weight training or clean up the locker rooms might also be included as 'educators', lol. Around these parts it's kind of painful to listen to coaches even try to make complete sentences in public. I guess that's 'education' of a sort.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

This might be a tough thing to expect from an 11-year old but if he could 'burst into tears', that would probably completely disarm such an individual and perhaps even bring the wrath of other persons down on him. Alternatively, "my apologies" comes to mind. The 'do tell' comment isn't quite as universally understood in the South as you might think. I have tried it and the other person merely thought I had previously been unaware of whatever fact they had just mentioned.

What was written in the descriptive sections of the project workbook which the beneficiary agreed to when he signed it on page 10? That is what the boy has agreed to as well. Edit: If the IH guy is talking in terms like that he already sounds ticked off. It might be time for the boy to rethink the project and decide on something that can be completed before his time's up. I have to also ask, how much of this project has actually been the scout's idea and initiative? From your description it sounds like an 'adult-led' project.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

So now that this thing has been brought back to life, I ask Woapalane to define 'face'. Does the head of a snail qualify? How about a segmented worm? The 'monkey face' of a coconut...c'mon, you know better. I don't know if basementdweller was responding in outrage or chuckling under his breath when he heard what the teacher was 'teaching' his daughter's class (probably NOT chuckling, I suspect). But it reminded me of recent discussions in which 'natural law' was invoked. By extension, and in response to these two old threads, I could easily make an argument that under 'natural law', being fat is good. It is the natural tendency for our bodies to store sustenance. At the same time, I remember well what my body told me the first time I made a serious attempt at using tobacco. Natural law, in that case, comes out squarely against smoking (or dipping, chewing...whatever) tobacco. This constitutes a triumph for natural law as well as a clear decision for both of the old threads. Case closed. Time to let them whimper into oblivion.

josryan, You're right. I can't imagine those logistics, wow. Is there any way to schedule travel off-peak? Maybe pick up a van rental at an outlying station? I just can't remember how often the train runs out to the Armonk or Somers area.

'Rural' also means very different things in different places. In this area there are plenty of rural folks who have a run down mobile home on a rented lot out in the middle of the woods, who work for nearly minimum wage or are on some form of assistance. They don't have easy access to any kinds of government services. They drive cars that some of us would send straight to the crusher (and they may not have auto insurance) and some of the time they don't seek medical care due to costs or inconvenience. There ARE a few farmers who match what basement dweller describes and there ARE some families who are immigrants from south of the border as well. We don't see that last group very often in scouting. But all of them are rural - with very large differences in many aspects of their lives.

One of our guys who was REALLY gung ho just returned to MI about a year ago to be closer to family. I'll see if he knows anything. That does indeed seem extreme.

Woapalane, congratulations. Care to share which airport has come to its senses with regard to belts? Twocubdad, CLT was the airport where I first encountered the belt stupidity and it was also where TSA frisked me and then x-rayed a single coin that I had missed in my pocket.

I feel your pain, it happened to the pack when I became the new CM as well. Eagle732 asks good questions. Most of the answers, I fear, you will have to find for yourself. The most important one has to do with the CO. If they have lost interest, you might as well disband. I was in almost exactly the same situation but the CO became more supportive and the pack turned around nicely in a couple of years. DON'T expect ANY help from the DE or any other scouting resource outside the pack. If you get it, fine, but you should be prepared to go it alone. But if the CO has lost interest, it's time to just allow that rechartering deadline to pass and move on to another unit if there is one. If the DE calls, pleading to keep it alive on paper, just politely decline. Sometimes it's the best way.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

When I was CM, there were quite a few single moms whose boys were in the pack. One of them was going to have to move to another state. The last time I saw them, her son, in tears, gave me a big hug. The other boys spontaneously joined in as well to say goodbye to him. It was beautiful. All that other stuff seems less important somehow. Edited to add: Tampa Turtle, you'll always be a rock star to me.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

H'mmm, hadn't thought about that.

Sorry Skip, you're asking me - as far as music since the 1970s is concerned, I'm completely clueless. I spent last night listening to opera. Tonight I'm thinking in terms of a ballet, maybe Khachaturian's Spartacus and Phrygia, I really like that one. The adagio is indescribably beautiful. But whatever that was in your video, I liked that too.

To follow up on what Beavah wrote regarding standards, I asked one of my classes today (slightly less than 100 students, mostly freshmen and sophomores) - who, if any of them, had been taught about 'prohibition' in school? The only ones who had never been taught about this event in American history were the international students. 100% of the students from this country had been taught about prohibition and most of them even knew the essential details and could articulate them. This contrasts with the Scopes trial and I think it is heartening that the schools made the decision that a national issue like prohibition, which had huge social, economic, political, and legal impacts...is more important than the legal equivalent of a circus side show in Tennessee. Moreover, I can breathe a sigh of relief now...knowing that my students have moved back to 'educated' status. Whew!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Skeptic, that would be a very nice dose of 'modesty' or 'humility' that you describe. I agree with you. One boy from this unit with whom I had great empathy (he was 'picked on' in school) earned Eagle and went on to complete a double major in physics and electrical engineering in less than 3 years and is now at CERN working on his Ph.D. in physics out of the program at UC Berkeley. I just hope he doesn't trip and accidentally create that miniature black hole that will swallow the earth. On the other hand, as he says, if it does "we'll never feel a thing". Have a nice day. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

The music was great too!