packsaddle

SR540Beaver, Do you really want me to trot out the OTHER anecdotes on what happens when children are left alone with a loaded gun? Really? Like I said, fantasyland. Eagledad, So you couldn't even let it go, even for Christmas day? Christmas? It really is sad.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

"My reference was to innocent people being shot by an armed citizen acting in defense of himself or others." Ever hear the name, Travon Martin? Yoshihiro Hattori? The 15-year-old daughter of David Page? Or even worse, Matilda Crabtree? Her last words to her doting father who had just shot her unintentionally were, "I love you daddy." All she did was jump out of the closet saying 'Boo!'. You don't hear of these things because you're not listening. You care more about swaggering around with a gun in order to prevent some fantasyland event, than about the real tragedies that occur. Shootings don't occur because we're awash in knives or swords or bows and arrows. Drive-by shootings don't involve spears. And otherwise well-meaning people who have unintentionally killed using guns probably no longer share your sentiment. I suspect they no longer share your fantasy.

"I have yet to hear of a legally armed citizen who caused an innocent death due to an errant shot." Incorrect. Dozens of times each year hunters shoot and accidentally kill themselves or other persons. I have to express my disappointment at this time. This was supposed to be a season of celebration. The tragedy at Sandy Hook was terrible. And before that many thousands of people were devastated by Hurricane Sandy. This season, Christmas really, was colored by these disasters and tragedies, not to mention other tragedies which did not make it to national consciousness. I had hoped, nevertheless, that we could celebrate this season in all of the various ways associated with different faiths and traditions, and both enjoy the warmth and comfort of family and friends while remembering all of those whose lives have been ended or destroyed by these tragedies and disasters. But then I watched...instead, as forum members chose instead to squabble, even on Christmas Day, about, of all things, GUNS! During this time of celebration of life and love and family and friendship, we couldn't even go 24 hours without obsessing about things that kill. It's really sad.

As much as I'd love to have you go through CLT so I could perhaps meet you on the way, and although I don't know the price difference, I'd choose to connect through Iceland. No contest. That said, most of the budget airlines out of CLT don't often appear on search engines like Travelocity or Expedia. I recommend a good travel agent who can ferret out all the best options and then provide assistance if you get in a jam someplace along the way.

Patron Saint of thieves, now THAT is interesting! No, you don't offend me. I guess 'silly' IS in the mind of the beholder, like many offenses these days. Since Santa lives and mostly operates using tools and animals from the extreme north, Lapland comes to mind here, I like to think of him in terms of the Finnish or Scandinavian tradition, an evil being who does really bad things to people, especially children but brings gifts once a year to attone. "He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake..." Kind of creepy, actually.

OK, we're still talking about Santa Claus. I guess I just don't think the Santa hat is silly. At least not as silly as these PC arguments...so I mostly ignore them and if someone objects, they're free to dock the pay of this volunteer.

"What's probably not helpful is folks with no school experience proposin' solutions that da professional educators don't agree with, or teachers' unions proposing solutions that firearms experts know won't be helpful." I wholeheartedly agree. I and my students have many times discussed the VA Tech tragedy and this cockamamie idea always comes up: 'what if I (meaning yours truly) and some other faculty, perhaps students had guns' and some event like that happened? The campus already has an armed police force with their own protocol and procedures should such events happen. We (students and faculty) also have received instructions on how to respond. The last thing the armed police force needs is to respond to a shooter only to encounter maybe a dozen or more un-uniformed persons with guns, scared, running around, hiding...maybe even firing at something! The gun nuts seem to be completely wrapped up in their fantasies but these 'what ifs' that they seem to entertain in their world of illusion...are just that: fantasies. They are the LAST thing I'd want present on campus if some tragic event like VA Tech happened again. Good Grief! And thankfully our administration (in a rare demonstration of rational thinking) agrees and has pledged to continue the present 'no guns' policy for this campus even if the state passes the idiotic legislation allowing armed faculty and students. Each campus will have the ability to have its own restrictions.

There are a couple of things I'm not clear on. What IS this hat people are talking about? And why is it silly? And as long as we're mixing these things up across threads (or, at least, I am), what kind of gun would Jesus choose to guard the classes he's reading to? I mean like OMG, this is all kind of confusing.

I'm getting cookware (pots and pans) and camping gear. What am I doing wrong?

Beavah, I sincerely hope that what it does when it 'ends' is to identify and isolate the irrational fringe and release the shackles from the traditional conservatives who seem to be locked away these days. I'd like to see true conservatives re-emerge and become an effective voice in society again.

Trevorum, I hope your New Year is warm and prosperous.

Desertrat77 writes: "Pack, finely crafted ideals...but what will you do if you run across the thug who doesn't care what you think of him? Or your view of the world? He's up to no good, pulls his gun on you. Or a knife. Or attacks you." Like anyone in these forums cares about what I think of them? Or my view of the world? I admit that I try to backpack during seasons which sometimes coincide with hunting season - and if I encounter a hunter on the trail, I don't give that much concern. This is especially true if I'm in Montana or Wyoming or Idaho. But the AT is different. There is no reason for a firearm on the AT or in a National Park. I consider carrying on the AT to be dishonorable of the conference and of other backpackers. The thug scenario you seem to fantasize about is extremely unlikely. Those sorts of people are not known for their enterprising spirit so they tend NOT to be out in the woods...and anyway if he comes at me with a knife, I know for a fact that he will be at sufficient disadvantage so as to deter him from action. The ONLY way someone can really threaten me on the trail IS with a gun. And guess what? Now it seems the trail is crawling with gun nuts. I mean you guys sound like the lunatic fringe! Oldscout448 tells us that LOTS of hikers on the AT carry. Good grief! As far as I'm concerned you're making the whole experience less friendly than it should be. By the way, none of you should ever, EVER argue against ANY other violation of G2SS. Get a grip people! Edit: I'm about as concerned about Fido and Bowser as I am about Miss Piggy.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

qwazse, Thanks but good thing I wasn't drinking anything just then, coffee is hard on the nasal linings.

Tea Party. Plan is NO plan. I told you so. (I just love saying that) Yeah, the Republicans just took ownership of nearly any self-made economic calamity that we're headed for now. OK, one more thing I've been saying for a long time....we went over this cliff back during the Bush administration. People are only now beginning to notice. Woo hoo, what a ride!

Well folks, another outing this weekend. It's turned cold enough to be decent hiking weather. But after this conversation, you can bet I'll keep my eye out for Miss Piggy! If she attacks I'll display my bottle of barbecue sauce. That ought to do it. Edit: MAN!!! I just realized I missed the end of the earth, I must have slept through it. Can anyone catch me up on what happened?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Heh, heh, I did a quick survey of my female friends and acquaintances (current count at 32). They are 100% agreed that they would not be attracted to a male carrying a gun. A couple snickered and questioned what such a male must be compensating for. I just love women. I'll head over to the local biker bar for lunch and try the same question. Should be fun. (I won't mention anything about loud exhaust)

Nonsense. I do the Santa Claus thing every year for my DIL's elementary school classes. By request. I do it for the local pantry as well. And, of course, for the office party (but that's a story best untold). It's a hoot, doing it for the children! The best comment I ever overheard: "Do you think he's the real Santa?", one boy asked another...."Oh yeah...he's OLD!" Great minds at work.

I've been backpacking in Glacier, Yellowstone, the Cascades, GSMNP, other parts of the Rockies, and yes, some parts of Alaska for over 40 years. Most of it solo. I've never carried a firearm. I've carried stuff for first aid or other emergencies. I've carried extra food. And a few times I've carried a cell phone (I really hate cell phones), but mostly because my wife felt the need to nag me from long distance. I've bushwhacked off trail in the backcountry in grizzly territory and over all these decades, I've never, ever, had a violent encounter with anything other than some blood-sucking arthropods. Yes, I was charged by a bear in GSMNP once. I smacked the hell out of it with my staff and that was that. Yes, I've seen bears other places and a few moose. But they've always yielded either to my forewarned presence (read: noise) or else to the bear spray. I did stumble onto a recent kill once and luckily the grizzly who had been guarding that spot had finished up and was gone by the time I came through. Its wallow was still warm (comfy, actually, I even gave it a try out). By the time I realized what I had intruded into, even if I had a gun it would have been too late if that animal had still been there guarding the kill. The only time I've ever been harmed by a mammal was when mice got into my oatmeal once or twice. It tasted 'funny' after that, almost as if they'd peed in it (they might've). But I suppose I've led a charmed life. And if one of those crazed raccoons or a ferocious pig ever comes at me I guess it will be time for me to buy the ranch because these things to me are irrational fears. Like I said before, if I meet another person on the trail I consider them 'friend'...unless I see it's some moron packing heat. Then THAT makes me nervous. I don't know them from Adam's dog and they have something that gives them the ability to reach me from great distance and there's almost no way I can dodge the projectile. Worse, they obviously think I'M a potential threat or else they wouldn't be packing in the first place. They are to me a threat, the only likely threat I'm likely to find in the woods other than, like said, blood-sucking arthropods (or incontinent mice). But for scouters to carry these weapons on troop outings, is something I cannot respect at all - and I hope BSA doesn't either.

The person who works his or her ass off to make ends meet pays tax at a higher rate than the person whose investment accrues dividends and he/she merely sits on his/her ass while the other person works his/her ass off to pay that dividend to the investor. I understand this part. What seems odd about this situation is that the person who works his/her ass off thinks this is fair. Interesting.

Does the category, 'beasts', include arthropods? I'm going to spend the next week or so counting mosquito and chigger bites. Pigs? Thanks, it's as if I needed another reason not to go to west Texas.

"You're just a smelly monkey." Thank you Beavah. You made my day. Now I have this wonderful mental image of a pharmacist in a white coat throwing his own feces at a bear cub. Delightful.

OK, here I come with that ray of sunshine...I'm almost ready to get down on my knees in thanks that here, at least, in this thread, we're not being torn apart by religion. Thank God for guns.

OEAE, Sadly, I too have heard some (Beavah's term is 'nutters') speaking that part about this being God's judgment on a sinful society. I shudder at the thought of Phelps and his followers showing up for some of the funerals, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I too am surprised to read how many scouters seem to think G2SS is disposable when it comes to firearms. I'd be interested in learning what the national office thinks would be a reasonable response to a scouter who violated G2SS in this manner.

Ok, I'm in agreement.