packsaddle

This decision would be easy for me. I'd leave the troop and focus all of my energy on the cub scout Pack. But that's me...I like the cub scouts a lot more, so unless you feel the same way, don't decide on that basis alone. By the way, WELCOME to the forums! The committee needs to do the training. That will help some. But after many years of operating with a weak committee (and sometimes effectively no committee), I'd like to have this problem, for a little while anyway. I agree with regard to the conflicting schedules. Seems like the committee, if they were really supportive of the unit, would naturally avoid such conflicts. Anyway, good luck, and remember....the cubs are (in my opinion) a lot more fun and a lot less trouble. Edit to add: Plus as cubmaster it's only one hour per month! LOL

DeanRx, I guess I am persuaded by Terry's thoughts in the top thread: that the 'watershed' occurred when BSA left the path with the 'Dale' case. The fact that BSA won that one meant that it was going to take time and a grassroots effort to affect change...which evidently has happened. Anyway, I agree with Terry's reasoning that this is progress and IF the local option can be applied at a later time with respect to leader choices, that will be even better and put BSA very close to the path they should have been on the entire time. Now, in some sense this means I need to soften my rhetoric with respect to the leaders in Irving. But....they're still administrators. Sorry, I'm still going to have to cast a very critical eye at them, although I'm pleased with the outcome of this process. I note that by relying on a vote, those administrators avoided making a courageous decision for themselves. So...kudos for the grass-roots. There's still more to be done but this one feels good. The boys I knew who hid themselves in the shadows in order to avoid being ejected can take heart that although this is a little late for most of them, it's going to allow others to feel freedom to be who they really are, with no fear that their club will discard them because of it. The unit I serve will continue to be what they have always been, just open about one aspect of it now.

Krampus, that may be true for most leaders. Perhaps even for parents of older scouts. But until I begin announcing at Cub Scout roundup (and I am going to do this) the official policy (whatever it turns out to be) for boys and for adult leaders, most of those families are clueless about this issue. The hometown newspaper didn't have a single line in it today about this decision. There was more written about pot holes in roads over the last weeks. New prospective parents are part of the Facebook generation and mostly don't know about this controversy, or else think they know something that is incorrect. I'll add my agreement with BadenP. The entire way this matter has been handled smacks of weak leadership at the top. I just hate to think of the inflated salaries that those guys get to bungle things this badly. The best way to compensate for that weak leadership (and I am sanguine about the poor prospects of getting strong leaders) is to move the leadership responsibilities to the unit owners: the charter organizations, a.k.a. local option.

Well deserved, too, it looks like.

Welcome to the forums, GarScout. I salute Connecticut Yankee Council for their courageous stand and wish them success. It will be interesting to see if the people in Texas respond as if backed into a corner, rather than having painted themselves into it.

MattR, why do you feel like your beliefs need to be "good enough" for anyone else. They're good enough for you and that's all that counts. If someone else disagrees, tough luck. It's one reason that I advocate for people to keep their noses out of other persons' religious beliefs. If only everyone just kept this stuff to themselves.. Moreover, that would eliminate the need for 'respect' for the beliefs of others. The way to respect others is not to shove one's own beliefs at other persons. The problem gets worse when people who think they believe the same thing organize and then start shoving their beliefs down the throats of others ...or worse. It gives hate a way to have a veneer of acceptability.

Welcome to the forums, Khaliela. What you describe makes me very discouraged on behalf of the scout law. But at least they're honest about their apocalyptic stupidity. Other councils might offer some mealy-mouthed deception to accomplish the same end while trying to maintain an appearance of fairness. It is just so sad, the hypocrisy.

If anyone was unclear about natural law yesterday, I hope they're perfectly clear about it now, lol.

What IS 'Objective Atheist Morality'? Is there a 'Subjective Atheist Morality?' Is there an 'Objective Religious Morality?' I think I can understand the existence of a 'Subjective Religious Morality.' Seems to be what most people think IS their 'morality'.

I was just today reading a history of the country I'm in right now. The Jesuits profited by selling slaves to the planters here.Once the new slaves were in the hands of the owners, they turned around and worked to convert those Africans they just sold into slavery to Catholicism. As long as we're talking about chattel slavery for profit...just saying....one more of those delicious ironies.

A thing called 'The Peter Principle' comes to mind. It seems to explain most of what we know as 'administrators'. Their inflated salaries are an obscenity.

I slam Obama hard on the Patriot Act and on other things as well. However, since you just mentioned the 'gay' issue, try to remember that this thread was an evidently vain attempt to discuss something OTHER than the gay issue...namely the IRS. If THAT gravitates back to the membership policy then perhaps we should just forget all other topics until that decision has been made. Perhaps even after that. Beeeee DOOOOOMED!

No returns allowed here. Seems reasonable. If you place the order you should pay for it. We haven't had a bad check yet, to my knowledge. But I wish we'd dump the whole popcorn thing as a unit and instead just focus on the more effective fundraising we do outside of popcorn.

It's been a while but the best ones I had were ones that involved snakes, other wildlife, fire, or food. I knew several different people who kept a nice diversity of snakes professionally and I'd engage one of them for a demonstration, including letting the boys handle the snakes. Some of the parents (and not just the moms) would occasionally inch toward the exit but the boys had a great time. Other wildlife include whatever our local natural resource agency had available in either living specimens or else stuffed ones. A live tree squirrel or opossum was an instant hit. One cub generation included a father who was the chief of the local fire dept. Each year he would show the cubs and their parents how dangerous fire is and how to properly respond, even extinguishing fires of different types. Some of the pack families had chefs in their families. They would get 'volunteered' for various tasks and sometimes one of them would show mechanical things, how to repair bicycles, etc. The cubs were fascinated. Just keep the cubs busy

Anyone want to guess at how many times "Western culture" has been "at a crucial moment in history"? And because of a BSA membership policy? Gimme a break.

MattR, I agree. I've seen this lack of attention to or regard for the cubs for as long as I've been in scouting. They seem taken for granted and yet they ARE the key to the future for all the rest. I'll write this again: I'd go back to the cubs in a heartbeat. I like them best of all and would gladly take that on again...far better than the boy scouts or venturers.

There should be no tax-exemptions. Period.

I went cold turkey on all alcohol over 4 years ago and I don't miss it. Never smoked. No drugs. I'm incredibly boring. But to me, the point of camping is not the cuisine. It is to enjoy the outdoors, yes and the companionship there of young people as well. I do not understand the need some people have to sneak off for any reason. If there is a serious need, state the need and then go take care of it. If you're sneaking, it is by definition a deception and violates the first law. As for the firearm thing...some people do seriously need to compensate for their shortcomings, even if through playing out their fantasies.

Well, there's this: http://emergingusa.org/2012/04/13/a-tale-of-fidel-and-the-ice-cream-2/ and this: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiGddf5nPxFIS8Y8Mufl59TxWG-6HoiIjiMxPpwj6KfeL0YYNipA Sure as heck looks vanilla to me!

That attitude is definitely common in the South but in my immediate area most Protestant denominations have COs that are more 'open', as you put it. Go any direction in a 5 mile radius and it all changes.

AZMike, as it has been explained to me by council, we have ALWAYS been subject to removal if we engaged in activities like that, even wearing little rainbow things on the uniform.According to that particular SE, BSA has always had the option of using that means to remove speech. So...fair is fair.

KDD, hatred is rarely so refreshing as to be presented openly and honestly. Mostly, it likes to remain hidden, almost as a way of life itself.

WAKWIB, I understand. I'm already past the empty nest phase but with new SM and other turnovers, they want to keep me around for 'continuity' or some such. I'm currently working to help revitalize the committee. Plus there's always a crop of new parents who are unfamiliar with the process. So I do what I can. All of them seem oblivious to the membership policy. I seriously doubt that any of them read the DRP before they sign the application. Some of them are gay. No one seems to care, or even notice. So we just try to ignore the stupidity. I'm sorry for the hate that others see or feel so often.

H'mmm, I've seen plenty of places that didn't allow patrons to enter if they were just wearing a t-shirt, or shorts, or if they weren't wearing a tie, or not wearing shoes. How about church? How do you feel about firearms in church? Courtrooms?

EmberMike, as much as I agree with your views on this, none of us can truly 'know' how we will respond until whatever-is-going-to-happen happens. Wait until we see the outcome, then report what we have done in response. Those things we CAN truly know.