packsaddle

Regarding your claim that evolution is an atheist's creation story, what do you think atheists claim to have been created through evolution? Still waiting for a response to the example of mosquito evolution.

Merlyn, for the same reason I went to grad school...I can't help myself. Stosh, there is no biologist who needs to 'justify' evolution. Our research is merely expanding on the mechanisms. The fact that there is a lot of such research is not a valid basis for anyone to conclude the ideas behind the research are incorrect. By that logic, the fact that there is a huge amount of cancer research must mean that the underlying ideas are also incorrect. Just to let you know, there are thousands of species of mosquitoes, over 40 genera discovered so far. As for the Minnesota frogs, the cause of those deformities has not been determined but they are not 'mutations'. Mutations, if they don't kill the organism, are heritable. The bacteria experiment employs mutations which occur all the time, to provide the necessary variations that then provide selective advantages for part of the population, imparting the ability to selectively survive whatever conditions are encountered in the habitat. This IS evolution. The experiments and studies are not outside normal science and ARE, in fact, real science in action. If you can find a flaw in their ideas, methods, or conclusions, you should write your critique and publish it as a comment or response in that journal. This kind of criticism is welcomed by the scientific community but you will be subject to the same standards of rigor as anyone else. If THAT doesn't "cut it for" you, then it is incumbent on you to correct the scientific community by informing us what WOULD "cut it" for you. I'd be interested in learning what, in your mind, WOULD be convincing evidence. As Ross Perot says, I'm all ears. To answer your question about the asteroid: "...why were certain other species spared?" Because if the asteroid had killed everything, you wouldn't be here to ask the question in the first place...they were spared because it DIDN'T kill everything. Science can't answer 'why'. It attempts to answer 'how'. "A life-form that adapts or even mutates does not mean it's evolving. It just adapts to the existing environment in which it finds itself, or it dies. There is nothing evolutionary with that." Actually, this is (in your tortured way of expressing it) the essence of evolution. Heritable variation in the presence of selective forces which over time change the genetic content of the population. The best examples of these evolutionary processes are the insects that have become resistant to pesticides and the disease organisms that have become resistant to antibiotics. MRSA is a gigantic monument to evolution. Again, I used YOUR example organism and gave you primary literature references for the evolution of mosquitoes. You have chosen to ignore that. Why?

Stosh, I listed actual primary literature supporting the evolution of mosquitoes and you evidently ignored that. I picked that particular topic because YOU used the mosquito in your initial statement. But I could just have easily shown the evolution of hundreds of other species that have genetically adapted to pollutants or pesticides. This kind of thing is not confined to bacteria. The experiment Merlyn has noted is employing bacteria because of two primary factors: 1) the generation time is very short so it is possible to directly observe thousands of generations within the time span of a single human life, and 2) the genetics of that organism is well-defined and lends itself to quick and relatively easy analysis (not to mention the fact that PETA doesn't care about bacteria). But that ongoing experiment is merely a fast version of what happens all the time in nature. It is just as valid an example of evolution as the emergence of any other new genotype that is adapted to some change in habitat.

You're talking about carving Mt. Rushmore?

Take a look at your Wiki page and note where it says they disperse "in all directions" during maximum population size. This is a case of individuals trying to find new habitats, not migrating en masse. See if you can find the population density for that time. If you stood in the middle of one of those population 'explosions' you'd be hard pressed to actually see more than maybe one or two lemmings in any direction for as far as you could see in the tundra. The other link describes dead animals on the highway. No surprise there, it's basically a killing field for rodents. I can show you the same thing for frogs or crayfish, no migrations en masse for them either.

"Why hasn't the mosquito "evolved"???? One would think that after 46 million years there should be some change." Do you not see the problems with this? First it assumes that there is some reason for a well-adapted organism to change. Second, it assumes that the mosquito has NOT evolved. You don't know either of those things. YOU are the one making assumptions. Do you even know how many species of mosquito there are? Do you know what species the insect in that fossil was? Do you know if that fossil species is the same as a species living today? Even with the internet I suspect you'll have to dig some to answer those questions but I'll bet dimes to dollars that at this moment the answers are 'no', 'no', and 'no'. As for evolution, here are references to papers with evidence of mosquito evolution: Bataille, A.; Cunningham, A.A.; Cedeño, V.; Patiño, L.; Kramer, L.D.; Goodman, S.J. Natural colonisation and adaptation of a mosquito species in Galápagos: implications for disease threats to endemic wildlife. “ConGen3: the 3rd International Conservation Genetics Symposiumâ€Â, travel reports, in Genetics Society News of January 2008 (issue 58). http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/06/04/0901308106.abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19655436 Edit: I almost missed this, "Of course, I sleep at night really well knowing that I am a mutated form of primordial pond scum." Why would you sleep better if you 'knew' you arose from dirt? ...or from nothing? What does your origin matter for how you sleep? Is this really that great a source of anguish?

I have no idea what you mean by "political evolution thingy" but I suspect it has absolutely nothing to do with science...which apparently neither do you. No law of thermodynamics says that. If I set up conditions to support the growth of a crystal, that process actually elaborates MORE structure as it proceeds, and is not a disintegration. If I plant a seed in my garden, the resulting organism will actually elaborate more structure by taking in minerals and converting them to complex organic forms. It will not disintegrate until it dies. Moreover, only the first law has been proven. The second law has not. We merely have never found contradictory evidence to the second law and plenty of evidence in support of it so we tentatively accept it as 'true'. Same with evolution. We can easily produce microevolutionary results in the lab. There's plenty of evidence to support it.

I am in a dept that has a large number of undergraduates (more than 1000), most of whom are pre-med of some sort. I get to advise them frequently and I am constantly struck by the dichotomy of motivations to go into medicine. The vast majority are in it 'for the money'. If this is typical for the rest of medicine, I can understand why they are disillusioned with the real world. Like I've written elsewhere, abolish Medicare and Medicaid and let people make their own decisions...and the market will make the needed adjustments.

Eagle92, I'm getting the feeling that you see a problem with 'for-profit' health care. Am I correct?

Not related to the topic but I need to correct the 'lemming' thing. Lemmings don't migrate en masse, nor do they jump off cliffs into the ocean. Events like that only occur when locals are paid to trap them so there are enough to do the scene and then they are herded to the edge and then kicked over by the film crew - out of the field of vision. I'm guessing Disney wasn't involved in this particular incident but...who knows?

KDD, what do you think is a way to address this issue of 'end of life' costs? I have watched many persons confront this issue, including both of my parents...and I guess it will be my turn eventually. To me when I contemplate the prospect of politicians writing legislation about this, it scares me to think that all of us might be subject to rules written by persons who are that thoughtless. To me, the simple solution is to make ALL of those decisions the responsibility of the dying person, or of the immediate responsible family. Government should not weigh in unless there are no relatives or other responsible persons for the dying. As I have written in the past, I would terminate Medicare and Medicaid (not to mention Social Security), and in their place offer every person an opportunity to use their resulting larger incomes to purchase whatever insurance they think they need. And then let them live or die in their own chosen manner.

I saw it on national news last night and I was stunned, speechless. I can hardly comprehend the arrogance and stupidity of this and I feel angry and ashamed and I don't know how to 'make this right'. The national news showed the video complete with loud, gleeful laughter as these morons successfully vandalized the formation. But I can tell you that in the last 12 hours, I've had more calls from scouts and scouters about this one event than ALL of the gay membership issue. I would not characterize the whole state of Utah on the basis of the thoughtless actions of a few scouter/vandals, but it is clear that a lot of people will use this to characterize scouting. I am completely disgusted.

KDD, help me out here. How did all that play out for Cromwell?

Horizon, there's plenty of space in National Forests. Find a trail and go make your own campground.

I'm glad she invested wisely and then later recognized her limitations and allowed those last years of public school to prepare you guys well for college. Your experience is your family. My experience is students from multiple families over many years. And specifically, the ones I wrote about were home-schooled all the way to their HS diploma. But I think we agree that it depends on how much parents are willing to invest in a meaningful way in the education of their children. This also applies to those in public schools.

No pool here as well. The practical utility of being able to swim a long time has to do with survival and is completely irrelevant to a pool. The boys who do this in our unit do it in open water. The pool is fine to work up on endurance. But the test should be a real test.

When I was a den leader, snacks were part of a group award system. Everyone got snacks at the end of the meeting IF their behavior was good enough that all three of the behavior candles were not blown out. That first candle going out caused some pause but the second one was serious business and only a couple of times did we take out the third...showing them that there ARE consequences, especially after more than one chance to get it right.

We had them when I was a cub in the 50s.

When we do the cycling merit badge, the boys all wear helmets because their parents require it. BSA is irrelevant.

Riding with traffic is law here as well, DuctTape. But we, and plenty of other states, don't require helmets, even for motorcycles. I wear one (and it has already saved my noggin one spectacular time) but most riders don't. I see more helmets worn (voluntarily) by bicycle than motorcycle riders. To me, I'm ok with this but I think the state should require that ALL persons riding two wheels should also be registered as organ donors. Might as well take advantage of a great resource.

Home-school students do not always do better. It entirely depends on how much the parents invest in both resources and, especially, time. Plus it depends on how well-prepared the parents are as well. Some parents are inadequate as home-school teachers and their children reflect this in their preparedness. As NAE suggests, there are no good statistics to use in order to improve this situation. But as I interact with local tech schools as well as the university, my anecdotal observation is that this lack of preparedness seems not so apparent if they go on to trades or junior colleges in which there are remedial programs, but if they enter this institution with aspirations of entering STEM fields, they often have great difficulty. Math, physics, chemistry, biology all pose obstacles of abstract reasoning that may be 'off the table' for them by this age. Most often I see them switch to sociology or communications....so they can prepare to ask people if they'd like to supersize their order, using proper English.

Humility? Now YOU're joking. His smirk and swagger indicated something more along the lines of arrogance. If anything HE was the joke.

I get students after they've been admitted to college and even these best students from good high schools often have difficulty with basic algebra or logic or geography, etc. But at least they are bright enough to learn quickly if given the chance. Other than that I interact very little with K-12 students. But I interact a great deal with K-12 teachers and I know that even in the virtual-third-world-South that there are some excellent, motivated teachers out there. Yes, some are not but I think the majority at least 'enter' the profession with high ideals. To me, the fundamental problems with the education and preparedness of students in this country arise when parents and social environment do not value or invest seriously in education for our young. And after a short time, some teachers give up, some burn out, and the very best 'soldier' on anyway. My mother was a teacher. I was constantly impressed with the status that people in other countries that we traveled to placed on her because she was a teacher. In some places it bordered on reverence. And in contrast, the seeming indifference, even contempt, she and others like her received in this country.

NeverAnEagle, my favorite is: "To those of you who received honours, awards and distinctions, I say well done. And to the C students, I say you, too, can be president of the United States." W said this in a commencement address. Sometimes the worst thing you can do to someone is to quote them accurately. W is a good example.

Papadaddy, I had a full career as a civilian employee of the DOD as well. I remember several of these events so I sympathize. But I quit and took another position (I was on FERS, not CSRS, so I could 'take it with me'). I'm sorry that you're feeling the burden of this occasion.