packsaddle

Moosetracker, I apologize but I confess...my eyes were glazing over by the time your first post got to 'cub scout specifics....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'. I don't know how you can do this stuff.

OK, I checked the IP address and this address is all over the place as a 'comment spammer'. The host is a company based in California and Thailand. I guess the message was translated automatically from Thai. H'mm makes me hungry for some Thai food (but not Spam). Later. Do they have Wood Badge in Thailand?

All I can say is that I'm very thankful I wasn't drinking something when I read Kudu's post. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

We usually get them back in maybe 3 weeks or so. I can't explain the differences in this waiting time though. I was unaware of the longer waits by some.

Depending on the location, climate, and weather at the time, I'd agree with the statement about water and shelter. If you can find a stream, water is solved and possibly food as well. Shelter might be necessary to avoid the elements. But if it's cool, I'd add that fire is another need. It will make the shelter feel more like home as well as providing warmth and a potential signal. It could be the key to survival. The ability to make a fire from nothing is a skill I'll wager is absent from most of the skillsets of the boys, probably the leaders too.

I'm not an atheist but this would have applied to an atheist. In North Carolina, I applied to change my voter registration. I had to swear an oath. I objected. I was told that in North Carolina, "If you don't believe in God, you can't vote." That's a direct quote.

I had friends living nearby whose children were subjected to mandatory school prayers. Everyone in the school had a devotional at the same time every day. My friend complained that his children were being forced to participate in something contrary to their religious background. The school responded by putting the children in chairs in the hallway for the duration of each devotional. They complained again. The boys were then no longer considered for any of the team sports activities. The mom was taken off the substitute teacher list. They were told that they were not welcome in stores. They ended up having to move to another area.

By all means, marginalize the person. Make absolutely certain that the parent and family never feel or become a part of society again. It doesn't matter if they've 'paid their debt', make 'em pay, and their kids pay, forever. Write them off.

We ALWAYS had great experiences with the family campouts. But our pack was much smaller, only about 30 or so boys, and the parents were always helpful and motivated. And we only did it twice each year (not counting the Webelos camping with the boy scouts) I guess the perception of the experience depends on a lot of factors.

Re: the original post, I think I've found something that illustrates the problem: https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...84647504_n.jpg Sad. Very sad.

AZMike, do you think a religious belief is a legitimate basis to break a law?

We apply it to STEM, not the other cub scout stuff. In the MB programs for boy scouts I prefer that the counselors be selected on the basis of some kind of professional understanding of the MB subject. I doubt that the people who proposed and promoted the creation of this STEM program intended it to be delivered by store clerks. However, it IS conceivable that a store clerk might be appropriate for merit badges related to commerce or perhaps personal management. In rural areas, there nevertheless ARE people who maintain the electrical lines and grid, people who understand metallurgy, and people who work with complex chemicals, communication technologies, or energy supply. A college degree isn't necessarily required, just a solid knowledge base in the subject area. But a person whose life experience doesn't go much beyond mowing lawns or loading grain may not be one of my top choices. Oops, I guess I didn't answer the 'why not?' question about the whole cub program. The traditional cub program around here is well-established and the chance of making much of a change in it is slim. The activities for the cubs up to Webelos ARE at a level that seem to be delivered nicely by almost any interested person. At Webelos (or whatever the heck it's going to be from now on), the boys around here typically get bored and want to do exciting things, especially in the outdoors or with power tools, lol. And there are some parents who are up to providing that level of program but not many...it takes more time and there just aren't as many in the first place, so it tends to suffer around here and we lose boys to other options (we'd lose some of those anyway, probably). OK, I think that answers it: basically we apply it to STEM and not the rest of the program out of a sense of pragmatic reality and, really, not as much need to apply it to the rest of the program.

JoeBob, if that's correct, the irony is that because I have long maintained that employers should NOT participate in employee health care, in a weird sort of way the ACA is moving in my preferred direction, at least on that matter. Of course in other ways it's moving far away from what I advocate...so maybe it's kind of neutral in a way. Or...as the old joke goes: the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer - so overall, on average, things are about the same.

This really resonates with me. I have heard family members recounting to others some of the things I've done over the years. Some of them were actually flattering, lol. Anyway, I've gotten to the point where I listen to their inaccuracies and to exaggerations that we both know are not exactly the way it happened, and I just let it go. It's interesting to watch these things evolve. Heck, if these stories are good enough who knows....someday I might evolve into a performer of miracles in some cockamamie religion or something.

Forget eBay. MARDIGRAS!!! Basement, you're missing an opportunity to have some fun in those situations. When you get a snub like that, THAT is the time to transform yourself into Mr. Bumbling Space Cadet, who doesn't have the sensory ability to register a snub and instead just 'acts' like one of them. I can tell you from personal experience, if you can take on this 'act' it can be a load of fun watching the reactions and the discomfort, even annoyance. And let me tell you I have learned that I have the ability to be REALLY annoying....and here's a little secret: I think YOU have this ability as well. Now, don't blush....c'mon, admit it. You KNOW you have that ability, don't you? It's time to shrug off the indignity and turn that snub in to a source of torment for them and secret delight for you. Give it a try.

I like the comment about Roundtable. I wholeheartedly agree.

Basement, first I want to thank you for communicating that new term. It is wonderful and I plan to use it just as soon as I can somehow. I'm not OK with it. It is one of my strongest concerns for the quality of the program. There is a real need for this kind of program but it could do some harm, I fear, if persons 'teach' things that are simply 'wrong'. Once learned, false concepts almost take on a life of their own and a wrong way of thinking could be a life-long harm. Worse, those Cubedwelling code monkeys, well-meaning that they are, don't even know themselves, how wrong or harmful they might be. So while the phrase that KDD mentioned is an expression of dark humor, there is a cynical element of realism in it as well. It is one of the reasons that, for grades starting in middle school, I have consistently maintained that teachers should have their primary degree preparation in the field that they teach, and not in 'education'. My sentiment isn't shared very widely so I try to shrug off the deficiencies of other subject areas and focus on STEM. That's what I am in so it's where I can have the greatest impact. I just pick up one starfish at a time and try not to obsess on the stranded multitude that I can't reach.

Back when I was Cubmaster, we managed to keep all activities within the limits of the pack budget so everyone could afford everything we did. But most of the cub scout things are relatively inexpensive in comparison to Boy Scouts. That is where the troop has to cope with this question. The scoutmaster and other leaders try to get to know the families well enough to detect these problems without prying too much. Then there are some very nice people in the church we go to for help with expenses if we can't 'earn' our way past the problem. And yes, sometimes, it is insurmountable. Those times we just have to move on. There have been years in the past when I personally and very quietly laid out $hundreds for certain boys. I sacrificed to do it but it was worth it.

Yeah , that's where my money would be too. But Mr. Peabody is on that list as well, an experiment with the Wayback Machine gone tragically wrong, lol.

I learned what DDT smelled like when I was three years old. About 60 years later while cleaning an old shed, we stumbled onto an unmarked container. I recognized the smell immediately. I was dead-on accurate when the HazMat people did the determination of what it was. When I was three years old, I hid a toy in a hole in the wall of my grandmother's house. Fifty years later when we were about to repair part of the house I remembered doing that. I showed exactly where to break the plaster and there my toy was, just the way I left it. I had described what it was, its color, and how big. Dead on accurate. But ask me where I left my keys and I'll have to give you an estimate with some statistical probability. What color is my t-shirt? I have no idea.

You have an opinion about an idea that you don't understand. You don't understand how it works today and you evidently don't understand how the idea was formed. I do agree with you about one thing: touting philosophical or theological ideas as science IS bogus, hence my objection to teaching creationism in a science class. But I, who AM a scientist and a biologist at that, disagree with your denunciation of my field as 'bogus'. I do understand you have that opinion. I also understand that your opinion is grounded in ignorance. I just don't agree with it.

Skeptic, I'm completely comfortable with the fact that I know very little about religion. But Stosh, he seems to think he does know something about science. And I disagree. Stosh, you didn't provide any qualification to your use of 'new world order'. Here's what you wrote: "Individual freedoms have no place in the New World Order..." I just noted that Bush also had a New World Order. In fact, it's the last one I've heard anyone speak of. I didn't criticize him. If anything Bush's version seemed to conflict with what you wrote...but of course, as I mentioned, you provided no qualification. I didn't pass judgment. Perhaps there was no conflict in your alternate universe. I do credit the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Egyptians, many others with the wonderful ideas that led to modern science. Of course, just like today, they had some very wrong ideas along with the ones that have stood the test. Some of the wrong ones were part of religious faiths and since you mention the term that I am not allowed to mention, some of those incorrect ideas that were once matters of faith are ones that you seem to view as 'myths'. Regardless, if malarial fever, or ergot-infected grain stored in Middle Eastern granaries caused hallucinations that inspired new ideas, I'm good with it whether those ideas are supernatural forces doing supernatural things to people, or if they're merely new insights that can be tested in science. But while the entirety of the historical pageant of man leads in different ways to where we are now, only one of those two sources of inspiration is related to science. I guess the supernatural IS a sort of alternate universe. P.S. Skeptic, I hope things go better for you today, and that your back improves. I know how painful that is.

I'm surprised there isn't some kind of copyright infringement for use of "Wayback Machine"...or maybe BSA is paying royalties to Ted Key and Jay Ward. Anyone know?

Thanks again to Moggie for being there at the proper moment. Stosh, even the passages you quote above show that Wallace did NOT originate the idea of 'survival of the fittest' but most likely he 'borrowed' the idea from Spencer especially since he wrote those things long after Spencer actually coined the phrase. But the last lines also put the lie to another of your claims, namely, "Prior to Darwin? Heck, he stole every one eles's ideas for his book. Wallace came up with the idea and coined it survival of the fittest..." Your claim that Darwin stole the idea from Wallace is simply outrageous. And the quote you provided clearly states that Wallace "...independently duplicated..." the idea. Theft? Hardly. It was a good idea that was inevitably going to be articulated by thoughtful persons and it just happened to be articulated by two of them in this case. In your universe, you should find what Huxley wrote about the situation....HE actually mediated between Darwin and Wallace in order to get proper credit to both. And while you're at it, find out what Wallace had to say about it. Read on.....

Quite right, if the number of physicians was allowed to expand to meet demand, competition between them would bring down the costs. The insurance industry AND the doctors know this.