packsaddle

You know, I've been trying to decide what to think about Trail Life, not that it matters much. But I've decided that I really like Trail Life and I'm really glad it's been formed. When I think about all those times I was invited to leave BSA and form my own group, it seems like some COs and scouters decided to do just that and I'm glad they have stuck to their convictions, even while I disagree with them on those convictions. But the best part about this is that if they DO move over to Trail Life, that will reduce the BSA membership to those who either agree with greater inclusiveness in BSA membership policy or else are tolerant of it. Either way, Trail Life makes it even more likely that someday ALL boys regardless of background or beliefs, even lack thereof, will be welcome in this organization. In this sense, Trail Life may facilitate the transition for BSA and that is good.

...or as it's been explained to me and my children, they are going to heaven and my children and I are going to experience a 'warmer climate', lol.

Yes, I am in SC. What part are you planning to move to? Edit: I tried to send a PM but it says I'm 'over quota' or something to that effect. I deleted every message there was and then permanently removed everything in the trash and still no luck on PM. So if you want to chat about your move sometime, email me at packsaddle@lycos.com Cheers

Well, I looked a little farther and found this: http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140211/PC16/140219833 These two units were evicted out of 212 units in that council. But that area is what we call the 'low country' and it leans heavily toward 'Bible Belt' status. There is no mention of Trail Life and the evicted units appear to be finding other quarters. Not much impact so far, it seems.

Scoutmomof4, when I was CM I faced a few of these things. The key to solution of all of them is to get the parents more involved in all the various aspects of the pack. They are always ultimately in control of everything, either through participation in decision making or else with their feet, or both. The trick is to manage their involvement to avoid, if possible, the drama that seems inevitable with adults. But if this can be done, the system is self-correcting and you'll be able to devote more time to the boys. I really miss the cubs.

Looking at 25-mile radius, I've found one unit of Trail Life and the CO evidently dumped the scout unit to start this one. The scouts, most of them, were not members of the church and most are moving to other units in the area. Here is an excerpt from a newspaper article about that unit: "...adult leaders in the program will be Christian and must sign a statement of faith and submit to background checks. Both boys and adults will be required to adhere to a code of conduct. The full membership policy, Statement of Faith and Statement of Values can be read online at http://www.TrailLifeUSA.com. Membership in the program has both youth and adult elements.The adult applicant must also be at least 18 years of age and subscribe to and abide by the statement of Christian faith and the oath and creed of the program.The group welcomes boys whose parents are seeking a faith-based outdoor adventure program that places an emphasis on character development, leadership, and moral purity, and who aspire to live in accordance with the values expressed in the program’s Oath and Creed.The program is under girded by Biblical values and unapologetically reflects a Christian worldview. The group’s goal is for parents and families of every faith to be able to place their boys in a youth program that endeavors to provide moral consistency and ethical integrity in its adult leaders." Now I realize this sounds a lot narrower than what I'm reading in this and related threads but I suspect that this particular rural church is narrowing the rules to suit its own particular needs. Anyway, it's the only Trail Life unit I can find. The little town this church is in is also where I have lived so I know the people fairly well. This church is a perfect fit for Trail Life. So I Googled a line from the article and quite a few different web sites popped up indicating that this wording is being used fairly widely. I really enjoyed this site: http://victoriajackson.com/9771/new-boy-scouts especially the comments

Well, any way you do it that works for you is just fine. But I can tell ALL of you who are involved with the cubs...and this is from personal experience...try to set aside the adult BS and enjoy those cubs while you can. This is not going to last nearly long enough for you and if you miss the fun because you focused on drama, you're going to regret it later. I saw drama coming and managed to avoid it and I sincerely hope all of you can enjoy those little guys as much as I did. And with grandsons just a year or so away, I'm looking forward to the second round.

You are free to ask that question. And if the boy volunteers something about his beliefs or lack thereof, fine. But you cannot demand that he make any kind of such profession. So in answer to your question, if he says he would rather not discuss his personal matters of faith, you're done.

That is the question YOU should answer. Do you kick a boy out of scouts because he states his doubts about 'thrifty'? I guess so, since such ""in your face" declarations such as this have no place in Scouting."

Jblake47, The scout has no obligation to allow you or anyone else to examine them on their religious beliefs and if you 'think' they have misled you, then it is possible that part, if not all, of the responsibility for that is yours. There is no place that I can find in BSA documents that state that there is a responsibility for any adult leader to judge or examine the religious beliefs of a boy. Their beliefs are theirs, personally, and not the business of anyone else. If they've signed their name, the best thing for the rest of us to do is to butt out of their personal business.

When I was CM, the B&G was early enough that a lot of the cubs were not quite ready to cross over. So we held a crossover ceremony at a later pack meeting and kept B&G all about ALL of the boys. Our B&G was a potluck dinner and each den had responsibility for making their own table settings (competing with other dens for the most amazing). And there was also a 'Dad made the dessert' contest which turned out to be hugely popular with the boys. We had den skits, the table setting contest (judged by a few boys from the troop), some nice words from the CM about the year of activities (I kept this short as possible), awarding any leftover advancement for boys who missed previous meetings, special awards for anyone who survived a broken bone or a visit to the dentist (any excuse will do), some kind of demonstration (I always made this a surprise and it always involved something that had no legs or else had lots of them), and after everyone ate...with the boys champing at the bit, the scouts from the troop would announce the winning Dad's Dessert and then cubs would be allowed to descend on those desserts like locusts. I really miss the cubs.

I agree with Ga Mom and with Huey earlier. Yes, calling someone 'gay' may not rise to some standard of sexual harassment. But it does accompany a pattern of using 'sex stuff' to harass others and I've seen it too. Shut it down. Something like this was happening to one of my children (outside of scouting) and I confronted the parent (mom, in this case) about it. She started to deflect and make excuses and I cut her off. I just informed her that she's been told about the behavior and that if she isn't going to address the problem, there are other means through the school system and I would be very happy to oblige her and take over. Never had that problem again. The harasser evidently was doing it to others as well because about 6 months later, someone exercised that 'get big' suggestion and beat him pretty badly. He didn't learn though. Years later, he mouthed off outside a bar and a couple of rednecks really did humble his body with a piece of rebar. He lost the sight in one eye and hearing in one ear. No idea if that made any kind of 'impression' on his behavior. Old painless is probably waiting for him.

The answer to this probably depends on the council. In our area, this would be a family-related issue and if it was handled by the family in conjunction with the legal system, the unit and CO would be as supportive as possible to the boy and the family of the boy. If they did this on a scouting event, I don't know...I don't know of an instance of this happening...yet. We HAVE dealt with the tobacco thing. The boy, in that case, is often given the choice between scouting and nicotine.

If a boy asks to be my friend, I am not going to decline that request without a really compelling reason. That said, if I AM anyone's friend on, say, Facebook, they'll be lucky to hear from me once or twice a year. I suck at so-called social media.

Wood Badge has successfully positioned its history as a transition from dated Scoutcraft skills to "twenty-first century" (1965) corporate "leadership skills." The real transition was to replace one form of leadership skills with another: That would be Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Leader skills necessary to physically _lead_ a Patrol into backwoods adventure on a regular basis ("patrol" as a verb). Versus: Bruce Tuckmans Troop Method skills to form and storm menus and duty rosters in family campground-sized lots, where Wood Badge helicopters monitor the "controlled failure" of six month Troop election winners. And the thing I really like best about all this...is that he writes and says these things with such flair!

My guess is that if you do charge them a late fee, you might as well just go ahead and take them off the roster because that late fee is just even more incentive not to pay. Just a thought.

But at least that guy only went to his own grave. I can only imagine the increase of human suffering that accompanied this drug trade enhancement.

I noticed that too, lol.

Sentinel, it doesn't discredit a single other Eagle Scout as far as I'm concerned. We are all of us, each of us, individuals with our individual talents, abilities, and faults. To me, the tragic fall of this individual (if that is what it is) is something that applies to him and not to any other individual. It does, however, cause me to rethink claims that scouting builds character. Perhaps scouting provides opportunities for individuals to build their own character, and while that is a good thing, it is a different matter. But it IS an interesting story.

Just saw this. Wow: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/business/eagle-scout-idealist-drug-trafficker.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20140119&_r=0

I agree with Twocubdad. This is unrealistic. I actually do not agree with legislating term limits. We already have term limits. They're called 'elections'.

No

Say....How about that water and vinegar. I hope everyone understands that vinegar and water mix very well. And that actually vinegar IS an aqueous solution in the first place.

I hope everyone understands that vinegar and water mix very well. And that actually vinegar IS an aqueous solution in the first place.

"just don't use it unless it is an Emergency." I'm good with this. No need for a charger in that case. Right now, multiple weeks off the grid sound really good to me.