packsaddle

I didn't know it was possible to change the username. My wife wants to know how "humorless WASP with thin NAZI lips" sounds. I don't suppose anyone has that one yet.

Bob White, thanks.

Rooster, The "feeling insecure" part was the only way I could interpret what you wrote: "and ever other innocent person you know cannot feel safe in their own home." No matter how you want to say it now, it was a feeling when you said it then. Fear, to me, is less bad (and less real) than being unjustly slammed into prison. I am reluctant to view terrorists as more than thugs without honor. I am open to objective evidence, however, to alternative associations. What IS glib is to simply paint a religion (not our own) as the source of terrorism. As a non-Islamic person, I suppose I should read your words and be afraid. On the contrary, I walk with my Islamic friends with no fear whatsoever. What devoutly religious person does not consider their belief to be the correct one? Or are you ready to admit your personal doubts? Which religion is it that does not cultivate devout belief? The television images you cite are undeniable. However, I believe that the television images you saw after 9/11 did not fairly represent the vast majority of Islamic persons. Likewise, I don't jump to the conclusion that the images of riots after Rodney King depict the common response of black persons throughout our country. How many times have you and others condemned the media for slanting their reporting in order to sensationalize? Yet here you employ those most sensational images to support your idea. Furthermore, I am no scholar of the Quran and I am unable to read the original scripts (do you?). However, I do know the quote you mention because I have seen it in numerous sites devoted to condemning Islam. The '...' part of the quote should trouble you. Here is an equally valid alternative translation (with the missing words): "9:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him." Let's see, what was that again? "...WHO GIRD YOU ABOUT..." Do you notice a difference? Can you conceive the possibility that persons wishing to promote a certain view chose a version that best supports them? Or that they left out some words to slant YOUR view? Is this the approach that you embrace? I am not providing a criticism of any particular view. I am merely trying to promote some objectivity. If you are prejudiced against Moslems, be honest enough to say it directly. State your reasons. Be objective. Maybe you'll gain some converts.

Saltheart, I think you're overstating this. The ruling may have implications for BSA but it is essentially a clarification of a principle regarding conflict of interest. It should apply equally to judges who also happen to be leaders in the KKK. In any case it falls far short of condemnation by an entire state. As for how BSA can survive, I think that was addressed in an earlier thread (BSA is dying).

We use Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook 18-927B. It is my understanding that it is possible to do the whole project using that document. I haven't seen anyone do that yet but so far I have read no limitation. Our proposals usually go one to two pages typewritten. OGE's situation is one in which the scout didn't actually finish the project that was proposed. He still has until age 18 to finish, I think. I see no problem with repetition of a project if that service actually needed. And so far I haven't seen a project rejected if all the requirements are met.

Eisely, I am curious. Would BSA eject a female leader who was lesbian? Anyone know if this has happened? Maybe this has been answered in another forum.

Question, "Whats more horrible? Some innocent people inadvertently are jailed? Or You, your children, and ever other innocent person you know cannot feel safe in their own home." Answer: I choose feeling insecure over injustice. "Theyre (the administration) trying to stop terrorists who think we are worthy of death, even torture, because we do not embrace their God and their religious teachings." There's only one God, isn't there Rooster, or am I wrong? At any rate it would be the same one for us and the Moslems. Are you really so certain that terrorism is all about religious differences?

300,000 people on the riverwalk? They must have been packed like sardines. Uhhh, am I being a speciesist?

The Arab/Israeli conflict is more complicated than racism and it involves a huge component of religion as well as politics and economics. Racism is learned (or taught) (thanks Eisely, you too, Ed) but I believe that it isn't quite that simple. I admit that I have never fully understood racism even though I was raised in its midst and have seen and felt it first-hand (we're close to being neighbors, mama_bear). Nearly all of my childhood acquaintances were racists by their teens, mostly the result of peer interactions and adult pressures, I think. But a few took it to extremes of hatred that I cannot explain on the basis of their personal experiences. I am willing to entertain the idea that another characteristic (evidently unknown to me) was present in combination with their racist views that caused such extreme, violent hatred. I am not comfortable with the concept of evil, but perhaps Rooster has a point, for want of a better explanation. In the original post was a statement, "The greater the racial diversity, the greater the racial hatred in a community." I strongly disagree. I agree with mama_bear's response to that statement. But I also agree with Rooster that ignorance is not a prerequisite for racism. I suppose that ignorance makes a person susceptible to many suggestions, racism among them, but there are many persons who choose a racist view in a conscious, considered manner. I obviously don't know why. Racism certainly continues but in my region, but I sense that it has greatly diminished. I don't agree that we are 'Balkanizing', at least I don't see it in the South. In one generation (mine) racism was a pervasive norm, in the next (my children) it is uncommon and viewed as something to reject. In my troop, I see its vestiges in parents (they keep their yaps shut); but in the boys [and we have a multicultural troop] it is completely absent. I see progress and hope.

Ed, Yeah, I was scratching my head over that too. willysjeep, I think you basically had it right in the first post. BSA just discourages large ones. This leaves a large opening for judgement. I'm not sure how I would define 'large' either. I do flinch, however, when I think of anyone using a knife to dig with, no matter the size. Just a personal preference.

Hello Al, I wasn't intending to use psychology but if that's how you view it, OK. (Does Redbook still exist?) Actually my son keeps a really neat room, does his homework, stays on the honor role and is generally responsible without any nagging or similar treatment, and yes, that's close to how we achieved that status. By clearly explaining the behavioral connections, he could never claim not to understand the consequences of his actions. Our toop is small. When a parent comes with a concern about schedule or uniform, etc., if I or another leader dismiss them with a 'too bad, tough luck' response, it will tend to become an even smaller troop. Often the parent has noticed a school event or similar conflict of which we are unaware, or may have a useful suggestion to help avoid future problems. Leadership doesn't automatically endow us with superior knowledge or wisdom. I even find it instructive to the parent when they try to intervene regarding their son's advancement. It is an opportunity to understand why they think they need to do this and to clearly explain that it is their son's responsibility to do these things, not theirs. Everyone wants special treatment, is this a surprise to anyone? Rudeness aside, I believe that problems and conflicts are rarely resolved through poor communication.

Bob White, Thanks. The reason I ask is that I have detected an apparent lack of consistency in the process that occurs after the BOR. I take great pains to get the council records corrected (a pet peeve) prior to the board. Then I am told to turn in all the materials; application, project stuff, etc. On some occasions everything goes in and eventually it all comes back. Other times when I get to the council office, the lady takes the application, hands the rest back to me and says, "we just need the application". Huh? I obviously am not 'getting' something. Does national frequently change their minds on what they want to see? How they review the documents?

Their skulls are really nice but kind of pricey, replicas too. In my work I have seen and handled quite a few bald eagle carcasses (especially the last few years), too bad I couldn't keep one of the skulls for my daughter's skull collection. Anyone out there care to make a contribution?

Bob White, I am curious. Assuming the candidate and Eagle board have done things properly and all the dates and features of the forms are correct, what basis would national have to do anything OTHER than approve? Is there anything they can know that the board would not?

Welcome to the forums, Al, and good luck. I understand the concerns expressed by others regarding the 'my way or the highway' attitude. If a person has a thought that is important to them, it is important for a leader to listen and understand. Sometimes that person has a very good thought. To me the dictatorial approach indicates weak interpersonal skills, perhaps insecurity or lack of confidence in his stated position, or perhaps a bullying approach to people in general, compensating for his shortcomings. But it will be a problem and eventually someone will 'call' him on it...and 'the highway' it will be.

FYI, Guam is approximately 98% Roman Catholic with smatterings of various Protestant flavors here and there. However, the historical roots extending to times before the Spanish conquest are a society that is matriarchal (the Spanish, needless to say, could not comprehend this). It is common, according to my Guamanian friends, for all adults in a family (and close friends) to consider themselves 'parents' of a particular child. Extended family in the truest sense. My friends say that an unwed mother is likely to be viewed with less condemnation than on the mainland USA. This thread seems to be living up to that.

Would a couple of vulture bones do it for you? Check the laws to see if you can have them in your possession and send me a private message with your address if you're interested.

You know, the original post mentioned that she's 8 months pregnant. While everyone has taken a right turn over the rainbow, time is slipping by. Shouldn't we concern ourselves with that "Be Prepared" thing for the boys? They could get a really great unexpected lesson soon. In my experience teaching human reproduction, the basic facts are a great incentive to fight the urge. My students, especially the ones that pass out, are very quiet leaving those lessons. But boys at age 11 don't have any thoughts about these things, do they, NOT! My point is that the object lesson can cut both ways. Ok, everyone can return now to those exciting days of yesteryear, fighting the gay menace.

I have earlier confessed a complete lack of fashion consciousness. Clearly I am in good company. If they say, "not white, please", doesn't that mean you CAN wear white if you want to? I suspect it reflects a practical problem of keeping them clean. Or I could be wrong. And.. I gather from the discussion that people laugh at me in my corduroys behind my back. Oh well, at least it's not open ridicule. Voomp, Vooomp, kinda like a hand saw. Great for hiking, scares bears away.

It has been my observation from organizing conferences that adults are no different from the boys, maybe even worse. Does anyone think that the boys have, perhaps, learned this behavior from us? Parents? H'mmmm?

Good one, Rooster! But seriously, I like the 13th point question(mk9750) as well as the ones asking why the boy thinks he should receive the award. My favorite is what personal virtue is fundamental to every point of the law and every part of the oath. I like to hear their development of the idea to find out if they have thought about the oath and law, not necessarily the answer (but it's nice to do a good job there as well).

mgaesser, Welcome to the forums but I am saddened by the circumstances. A leader who has done what you stated is a coward and dangerous to remain in his position. I agree with Evmori, there is no good reason for an adult to strike a boy. You evidently have notified BSA regarding the incident. If their response is inadequate (and it seems to be) I suggest that an attorney will make things happen. And a criminal investigation might be in order. "Be always sure you are right then Go, ahead" (Davy Crockett). Don't leave scouting, show your son how to pursue justice.

Crows and ravens are not raptors but both of them are famous (notorious?) for their intelligence. Eagles regularly eat carrion, something a turkey would never do. At least vultures (which are also raptors) are honest about their station. Franklin had good points but lost the argument. You will not find a more noble bird than a wild turkey. I once used grouse and quail to finish the fine details of two dance rosettes. Took many hours to complete but the effect was stunning. Check with your state wildlife regs regarding raptors (hawks, etc.), the penalties can be devastating.

Eamonn, There's another way...that's been used numerous times on me: One of the boys points at me and blurts out something like, "Hey everyone, look! Mr. Packsaddle has his lodge flap upside down!" I'm still not sure if these guys are put up to it by some adult but at least I'm not walking around obliviously while people silently condescend. H'mm...or am I? I need to think about this some more.

Captainron14, Imagine starting this discussion with a group of people you don't know in one of the parks in that delightful town across the river from you. Most members of the group hang around to listen with variable interest and just a few are passionate enough about the subtle differences between LDS scouting and 'the regular old way' that they carry on with the discussion (in my region you'd be lucky to find enough people who know Mormons exist to have this discussion). But once in a while, someone makes a remark that reminds yet someone else of something else that they would like to share and they just blurt it out. Then the group focuses on this new, more interesting discussion - or not. There's probably some pseudoscientific psychological explanation for this. And the remark I just made about pseudoscience might induce a objection from an insecure psychologist that carries us even farther away from...now what was that original topic again? But you're right; these threads suffer from ADD. And most of the time respondents will indicate offense if any is taken. If they don't say anything, no problem, if they do it's too late anyway. But thanks for trying. Don't worry, be happy.