packsaddle

At the Post Office this morning, overheard conversation: Little Old Woman, "...you know it's too bad when we're young we don't learn our family histories from the old folks." Reply from Little Old Man, "Yes, that's for sure, but I decided to make sure my children wouldn't have to search, I've spent countless hours looking for grave sites." LOW, "Really? Did you ever see that gravestone, you know, the one with the devil's head on it?". LOM, "No, but I've heard of it." LOW, "I saw it once. A friend took me to see it when I was little and now I can't remember where it was." LOM, "What was the story on that again?" LOW, "You know! That man is buried there, the one who as a boy burned a Bible. Then after he was buried, after they put the gravestone there, a devil's head just grew right out of the stone on the top of the gravestone." LOM, "Yeah, now I remember." LOW, "And every time they replace the stone with a new one, the devil's head grows out again." "It won't stop, probably for eternity." LOM, "I guess we know where that man went." LOW, as they exit the front door of the Post Office, "Yeah, I know that!" Share your favorite urban myth with us. Or just a good scary story. This one was brand new to me today, and I thought it was a good one. Happy Halloween, be careful tonight.

OGE, I'm not sure your reply was aimed at me but I don't support the death penalty. Anyway, I am certain that we Southern states are much more conscientious in our investigations and are able to completely avoid the slip-ups made in Illinois...right!

That is the actual experience, I think, and that only includes those for whom extraordinary evidence exists to exonerate them. There may be other innocents who cannot produce the necessary evidence. But there's no way to know that proportion would apply to any other state without going through a similar effort as has been supported by Mr. Thompson. The question I would like to see answered is how many past executed prisoners could be proven innocent? I gather the courts do not open the records on those cases and the incentive clearly isn't as immediate. But I would like for some innocent faces to be put on persons wrongfully killed by the state. It would be interesting to apply such exercise to other states like TX and FL that are especially prodigious in their application of the death penalty.

OGE, My understanding is that the Illinois story is still unfolding.

Fat Old Guy, I think the spirit of your post is exemplified by the trail of tears.

Aaaaaaah, gender differences. I continue to wonder at the Perry Mason model: men murder for money, women murder for love. Viva la diference! I guess he never accounted for terrorists. NJ (or should I say, Dr. Strangelove?) I hope all that was with your tongue firmly in your cheek. Rooster7, why would you send ANYONE into a war zone to prove a point you didn't believe? What are you writing about!? "I always knew it would come to this." What is 'it' and what is 'this'? How did you know whatever 'it' was in the first place?

SR540beaver, I share your observation. Our local H.S. actually has several Ph.D. faculty. A couple of others have national recognition in science. The physical facility is old and run-down and some courses are weak, but overall the program is excellent. Physics class, for example, has a great field trip to Six Flags. They do the rides with force meters and get tech specs to calculate the physical characteristics. In chemistry there is a seminar program as good as some at the local college. In biology, they take it to the molecular genetic level. I attribute most of this to demanding parents, though, in addition to great faculty. Elsewhere in our state, there are schools that conform more to the profiles stated by FOG and others. The strength of a principal can influence a school but ultimately I believe if the public demands and supports good public education, that is what they will get. If not...

Fat Old Guy, If I started a survey to determine how many of us post to these forums thinking we are WRONG, what do you think the results would be? Have a nice day.

Thanks, it does help. But I can see some significant time investment if a person is really to understand the structure. I'll dig up your earlier post on titles and descriptions. Thanks again.

This site may offer additional insight: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=fs

OK, who composes the Council Executive Board and who chose them? In a more general tone, is there an overall organizational chart for BSA that actually explains all the levels, who is subordinate, etc. down to the DE? I haven't found it on the web.

OK, who hired him (her)?

My wish list, remember this is council level: A real merit badge program. Accurate records.

KoreaScouter, I understand and agree with your explanation. I now suggest another way to view the same facts. The AVF, as you say, works well and is likely to continue, unlikely to be replaced by conscription (there are other good reasons for this besides demographics). The AVF is working for men who join, with registration. The AVF is also working for women who join, without registration of women. There is clearly no need for registration of women with regard to the AVF - why then register men who volunteer anyway? Registration is irrelevant to the AVF and if this implies that there is no need for registration, I agree.

I must observe, we're going to get to the end of the alphabet soon. Maybe we should just look at each other as individuals and stop making such a big deal about group differences. Just a thought. I see a few pre-meds come in and out of my courses. I would feel quite comfortable if most of them appeared at my surgery (not all at once). And there are always some outstanding students in other fields too. This hasn't changed much over the years. I guess my point is that every cohort has leaders and doers. They are all great in my book. And while every class has had some who didn't seem to have the spark, I can't explain why there seems to be more of them now, could just be my perspective. But overall I don't see the great differences spoken of here.

I occasionally frighten the boys by mentioning that my favorite video game of all time is 'The Little Mermaid'. I use it as a kind of scoutmaster 'shock and horror' tactic. The skeptical ones are usually persuaded by my subsequent in-depth description of bubble swishing strategy (no lie). Keeps 'em wondering for a long time. Once in a while one will sneak over and ask to borrow it. Tee hee.

OGE, I agree. All or none (hope this wasn't a shock to your intuition). Momma scout, many many men went to war and died or returned to lives in which their basic rights were denied. Black Americans, Japanese Americans, for example. Although I share your aversion to involuntary servitude, your rationalization falls flat historically. I too would serve in place of either of my children. But this whole discussion is probably moot. The draft is extremely unlikely for good reasons (articulated during a Republican administration, Nixon). Later Ford actually even ended registration (restarted later yet by Carter). The all volunteer force works and works well. If we need more persons in the services, we merely need to entice the potential volunteers with better pay and benefits. THAT would be fair.

While it probably doesn't satisfy Fat Old Guy as an authority, this is the url that usually pops up for this topic: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm Warning, it is a really long page. I don't have strong feelings on this subject. The problem that occurs around my region is when the camel's nose gets in, the rest is soon to follow. What that means is, let them wear camo, then say 'goodbye' to much of the uniform and later 'hello' to t-shirts with the confederate flag. So I try to hold the line. I like the uniform, its fit and feel. It levels the field and, despite grousing in other threads, it looks good.

What we have here...is a failure to communicate. The question is too vague. BSA as an organization has not done much in comparison to, say, the Audubon Society or the National Geographic Society. But I approach the requirement on a more personal level. In fact, BSA has taught an environmental ethic to the boys from the beginning. The ethic has changed over the years as our knowledge has changed. For example, back in the 50's we were supposed to burn out and bury our cans when camping in the wilderness. Now we have the 'leave no trace' ethic. There are many other examples. BSA may not have led the environmental movement but it hasn't resisted it either. Therefore my thoughts are that BSA's major contribution was through increased awareness in the boys, an awareness that has evolved with our increased knowledge. What more could you ask?

Boomer here, one step away from the leading edge (I heard that, I am not one step away from the grave! I hope.). I may actually collect a couple of years worth of social security before it pops. ...unless someone shoots me first. (if this happens, my wife had nothing to do with it...you listening dear?) I tend to think that the only real difference is age. Most people want very nearly the same things. Although...students in my courses seem to be less well-prepared than they were 10 years ago. The parents of boys in this troop are all gen-x'ers and if leaders ask they come forward in droves to help. Sometimes arriving late, sometimes unprepared, but there nevertheless. As I said, much the same as for the boomers. I guess I don't see much difference. As for me, my son has been out of scouts for a while but I'm hanging on, at least for a few years. Yep, unlike tricky Dickie, you will have me to kick around anymore. Huh?

Davej775, Thanks a WHOLE lot! All I can think of now is the StayPufft Marshmallow Man (did I spell that correctly?). You know, if we are ever attacked by giant marshmallows we're going to regret this policy and be in world of hurt. Oops, we're even not going to 'Be Prepared'. Come to think of it, how do they make marshmallows anyway? And why do they taste better burned? In between graham crackers with Hershey bars? Who was Graham anyway and why did they name a cracker after him (her)? And they're not really crackers are they, but more of a cookie? And cookies are called biscuits in the UK, why? ....and spanners and dust bins? Eamonn, help me! Sorry folks, I do this around popcorn time each year.

Ed, elsewhere in the G2SS, for example, is wording, "For all street or pavement skating activities, participants should wear properly fitted helmets that meet American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards; padded gloves; wrist supports; and elbow and knee pads. No street or pavement skating is authorized without helmets." The even wafflier term 'should' is used initially regarding wearing helmets. Do you consider this to mean that helmets are optional? Then it states that no skating is authorized without helmets. Do you and others read this as contradictory? My point is that if one applies your standard of clarity to the entire G2SS, a number of important safety-related policies are in jeopardy. I sympathize with your desire to have policies worded clearly. Nevertheless, I understand that the intent regarding tobacco is more to limit use rather than to allow as an option. I would like to hear someone from the committee that created these words defend them in this forum.

And so we have stumbled into one problem with statistical relationships. That is, a correlation (or a regression) does not thereby explain the numerical relationship. It doesn't show cause. What it does show is a promising line of investigation and when interpreted in a slightly different light, it quantifies risk. However, risk played no role whatsoever in my decision not to use tobacco. My body made that decision loud and clear back when I tried it for the first and last time. So I am interested, among those of you who do use tobacco products, how did you get started? Are you glad you did? Do you think there is a greater health risk associated with your use of tobacco? The edited part: NJ, I forgot to add, having gone through some exquisitely painful throat surgery this summer (not cancer), conversations with my ENT specialist revealed a number of cancer cases for whom there had been no history of tobacco use. It does happen, just more often with tobacco.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Fat Old Guy, All that stuff wouldn't be too different from what I have in my pockets normally. And I do the laundry. (I KNOW what happens to a plastic worm in a dryer) BTW, we should believe PM now because they have been forced to admit they were lying then. And because we already knew these things, they now admit we are (were) correct.

LauraT7, others, this topic seems to keep returning. So I'll make my perennial remark. I like the uniform. The pants fit and feel fine to me. Not sure about the dew rag thing though. I buy uniform parts via catalog. Quick delivery, no problems, no complaints. Have a nice day!