packsaddle

Adrianvs, yep that was with tongue firmly in cheek. Anyway, an example: A scientist (whose identity I feel the need to protect) who was revising a comprehensive taxonomic index for an obscure taxonomic field once remarked that he was frustrated by the fact that taxonomic entries seemed to have exceeded the ability of Latin to describe them. He implied that all the available Latin descriptors and their permutations had been exhausted with species left over. He was exaggerating a little but I appreciated his point. As anyone can see in these posts, for example, our ability to invent new words and descriptors using English seems boundless. That's how I distinguish the dead from the living - at least as applied to language. As for the term 'barbarian', I refer you to Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary: "Barbarian a Greek word used in the New Testament (Rom. 1:14) to denote one of another nation. In Col. 3:11, the word more definitely designates those nations of the Roman empire that did not speak Greek. In 1 Cor. 14:11, it simply refers to one speaking a different language. The inhabitants of Malta are so called (Acts 28:1,2, 4). They were originally a Carthaginian colony. This word nowhere in Scripture bears the meaning it does in modern times." Please note that most of the time I really do attempt to live in the current century. Edited part: Hey, I just found another source, sort of smacks of an urban myth though. http://cal.jmu.edu/sherwork/Word%20Fun/etymolog.htm "Barbarian: From Attic Greek. Attic Greek was the Green vernacular spoken around Athens, in the province of Attica. They thought they spoke the proper Greek. Everything else just sounded like a babble of nonsense to them, literally as if everyone were going around saying 'bar--bar--bar--bar--' So anyone who didn't speak proper Attic Greek was considered a foreigner who could only speak 'barbarian.'"(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Gee FB, I don't know quite what to think of your explanation. There's just something fishy about it.

I can't think of any good speaker for a fundraiser. But we have had some good speakers: A couple of great ones we had included a zoologist who collected live snakes and brought about 20 of them to the talk. Another was the fire chief who, in the course of the talk demonstrated various types of fire suppression systems and why they work on different fuels (works best in the winter). The boys were absolutely captivated by these. The adults seemed interested as well. But fundraising, well, you know... root canal time.

I commute about 12 miles one way to the meetings. There some boys who live in another direction and commute about the same distance. They drive past their old troop because this troop adheres as best it can to the letter of the regulations. Their old troop had restrictive rules (such as 6 months to finish a MB).

OGE, it WAS a heck of a game! Of course I wouldn't have said that for most of the first half. My team lost but I was proud of them anyway. The Patriots clearly were the best team.

I can tell...you're a Mediterraneanist. At least Greek is not a dead language. OK, so what about Charity, Chastity, Gambling, Greed, Sloth? Wait a minute....I may be thinking about someone else.

I am not trying to hijack the topic but it just occurred to me that we often use phrases that would not make much sense to someone not familiar with our language use. Such a phrase just occurred: "sounds fishy". I note how unlikely it is that a sound will be "fishy" and I admit I'm not sure what it means if it is. Moreover, if you just 'read' those words in an email or similar message, there was no sound at all...I hope. Oops, I think I just got hit by a paper cup.

I don't read or speak Greek so I must be a barbarian. Therefore I wonder if anyone could please respond with a list of the manly virtues, separate from the womanly ones, and a brief description of the differences?

To me the fine points of whether insurance applies or not are important and must be kept in mind. But I think BW's note is important for another reason as well. While some circumstances may result in the absence of a tour permit, if a troop or a leader manipulates circumstances with that intent, it is a deception that I think violates the 'trustworthy' point of the law. I am sure that KA6BSA does not advocate such action but to me it seemed worth saying.

Excellent point KA6BSA, if they don't have good authoritative records, the Eagle application may be impossible to complete correctly. However, I haven't seen any written regulations or even guidelines that mandate a minimum number of hours for the project. Are you sure about this?

Georgia is going to try to eliminate the word 'evolution' from their science curriculum. At the same time they will leave the concept in the curriculum. Jimmie Carter's response, "There is no need to teach that stars can fall out of the sky and land on a flat Earth in order to defend our religious faith." Gotta love him. http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01/30/georgia.evolution/

"...But are you actually going to equate lying about an extra-marital affair to taking a nation to war for ulterior motives. Both would be wrong, but the consequences of one are much greater than the other." I agree. One lie betrayed a spouse and upset much of the public. The other lie has dead bodies attached to it.

Excellent questions BW. I have encountered similar situations and at age 18 some of those boys had become outstanding life scouts. And it was clear to them that the choice was theirs. Some went on to earn the rank of Eagle. And that choice was also theirs.

Sorry about the hijack but thanks for the help. Yep, the dog sat at the door and whined until we let it in (and into the downstairs bathroom where the whining wouldn't bother us). I see experimentation in the dog's future, thanks to all the great suggestions (has anyone seen the film, "Holes"?) I'll hijack another thread when I have the results. Thanks again.

OK, OK, Uncle! I agree with you. Now about this skunk thing....

I know this is off topic but this is really bad and I need serious help, quick: So there I was, sitting in my living room having fun on the forum...when a tell-tale aroma wafted through the room. Nope, it wasn't a family member, at least not a two-legged one. Our dog just proved that dogs are REALLY stupid. She was just sprayed by a skunk - for the second time. I could really use some help with ideas on the best way to mitigate this situation. The dog is going to spend the night out, she is really too ripe to get near - maybe tomorrow. Is anything effective, really, at clearing the air..so to speak? The smell is quickly filling the whole house. Edited part: Holy Toledo, it's so strong that the smell is actually painful. I poked my head out long enough to ask the dog how she's doing. She said, "Ruff!"(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Proud Eagle, me thinks you watched GhostBusters just a few times too many. FOG, you caught my curiosity...has anyone EVER been killed playing laser tag? I'm not talking about an old guy like me croaking from a heart attack either.

NJ, all 10? And I thought I was certifiable. But it could be a lot worse, to wit: OGE, FYI I find Grace Jones very intriguing...hubba-hubba! The downward spiral continues.... check it out http://www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/Bahri/GraceJones.html

I do have some experience in these things. You have created a very difficult list of demands. The one that places the greatest limit is 'trailerable'. There are few boats greater than 26' that are trailerable without special provisions. This is due to both weight limits for the towing vehicle and 'wide load' regulations for the various states and local governments. My 26' boat pushes the limit for my vehicle (large SUV with V8 and towing package). I have seen larger boats on 5th wheel trailers but very rarely, nearly always with 'wide load' vehicles. I could cram 6 persons into my boat but we would have to be good friends. For inland waters, you will rely on a 'porta-potty' or something similar. I would have you charged with a crime if you discharged waste directly to a lake. Stepping the mast is something that I personally only allow on the trailer, on land. I would rethink the idea of stepping it for a bridge, on the water, because there are considerable risks to both watercraft and passengers. Also, you need to be mindful of potential overhead powerlines. Such a mistake can also be messy. I think you need to engage a local sailing club or someone with some experience before you make any decisions. Better yet, see if they'll take you out for a spin. I do this frequently and most of us are itching for an excuse to get out on the water. Have fun and be safe. Edited part: A 19-footer would be a great size for convenient trailering. I would extend this to 21-22 feet. You might want to consider an older Catalina 22 or similar for this. There are gazillions of them out there on the market and they are a great way to start out.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Whether the garment (or whatever) is cloth or an actual flag is unimportant because it IS the symbolism that seems to bring these arguments out. However, I can remember when Gulf Oil Company (now BP/Amoco) gave out little self-sticking plastic flags to put on our automobile windows. That caused a flap back then as well (in the '60s as I remember) Now our highways are littered with the little flags that patriots didn't bother to retrieve when their little plastic staffs broke at 80 mph. When the troop does their highway cleanup project and one of the boys picks up such a flag, half-embeded in mud or infused with broken glass, is he to retire it in the traditional manner - or merely to put it into the trash bag with the beer cans, junk food wrappers, and baby diapers? I also remind everyone of my neighbors who fly our national symbol...just below the Confederate flag on the same staff. They consider themselves to be more patriotic than average, go figure. Just as inconsequential. Am I supposed to know who Toby Keith is? P.S. I confess I missed the half-time display of flesh because I was getting another beer and joking around with my buddies. Such are the evils of demon drink.

Did someone mention food? I have a tough time making the choice on which is best because I think both do a great job. And I also agree that the 'cuisine' is the critical feature. Its Me, take a look at the web site and click on the "printable specifications" button. In the accessories you will see griddles listed that cover all the burners.

Ed, if either answer is neither correct nor incorrect then I don't understand why the question was asked in the first place. However, if there is some importance given to the choice a person makes (which is why, I assume, the question was asked), then someone must think they know the correct answer. I suppose I could be wrong. But I'll give it a try anyway. As I understand the question, all other factors being equal, the only difference between the two situations is that alternative one adds prayer or some other spiritual factor. Alternative two adds gene therapy or some similar technology. One flaw that dims my view of this hypothetical situation is that both alternatives employ methods based in scientific research (the conventional drug treatment). The choice, then, must assume that the conventional treatments have failed (which they ultimately do in real life). But the two alternatives cannot be considered completely independent if they share a common treatment component. A clearer choice that would satisfy the question would be for alternative one to offer only a faith-based treatment and for alternative two to offer only technology-based treatment. Another problem is that the hypothetical situation involves a medical problem that can only be proven through an autopsy. Because there are so many potential ways for dementia to occur, and because the diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease is inexact, it is a poor choice for this hypothetical. Also, if anyone can name a single Alzheimer's patient that has ever recovered to good health, I would like to hear it. In the hypothetical question then, both alternatives are likely to have the same tragic result. But I suppose, perhaps, the question is one of probability: which alternative is more likely to benefit the patient? Given the inevitable outcome the choices might be viewed as equal but my money would be on technology to delay further development of dementia. But to address the question as stated, I seriously doubt that ANY care giver would require a choice between those two alternatives, but would more likely offer both. In my view it is an unlikely and unrealistic situation. If I was the patient, my choice would be number two. Shortly after diagnosis, I would also do the legal stuff to give my wife the responsibility to make such choice when I am unable. If my mother was unable to make the choice herself, and if I was empowered to make the choice for her, I would again choose alternative two. However, even with alternative two I would engage clergy of her faith as well as the technology named in the alternative. Here's why: Unless she had already expressed a wish to limit treatment, I would assume she would desire every available measure. I need no other rationale than my love and respect for her to decide to engage elements of her faith as well. But regardless of my choice, from my observations, the outcome will be tragic.

Ed, I admit that I don't know that there is a correct answer to Acco40's question. But I did detect in his question an interest in the citation I gave. It may have dodged the question but I thought it would add to the topic of his interest.

Acco40, I think you might enjoy the following: Brush, S.G. 1974. The Prayer Test. American Scientist 62:561-563.

Adrianvs, going back to something you wrote earlier, "No, Ed was talking about being excluded from the entire public sector. The groups that you refer to are being excluded from one private organization. The difference is quite significant.": BSA sought to be categorized as a private 'club' and won. As such BSA still has as much access to public parks, etc. as I do as a private citizen. This troop camps in parks at all levels of government and the district frequently uses public property for camporees, etc. However, the exclusive access and sweetheart deals that BSA enjoyed in the past were at risk and BSA knew it. To use Ed's mode of thought, by taking the road that BSA chose, BSA excluded itself.