packsaddle

We engage our fire chief for a safe-but-exciting demonstration. He sets up demos for two fuel types (paper/wood, petroleum/liquid) which show the speed and damage they can do. Then he shows the best methods and extinguisher types to stop them. Takes a bit of planning and some materials but even the adults oooh and aaaah.

FOG, Valhalla is a small 'burb in Westchester County just outside the Big Apple...nice, but not my idea of a great alternative. Ed, I don't offend easily unless it is on behalf of the boys so that's not a problem here. Besides, I must admit that I haven't followed the specifics of your, FOG's, or BW's allegations so I am not judging anyone in particular. I'm fairly certain such detail would not be all that interesting anyway. If anyone else feels differently please chime in on this thread. I would, however, like to believe that all of us have, as a basic goal, the best interests of the boys. It seems to me that starting from that point we could find just a little common ground to resolve differences. Just a thought. Also (hint, hint) it would serve as a better model for the boys. P.S. We just had a great troop meeting, perfect t-shirt weather with real sunburn potential. Gonna have a great camping trip next weekend.

BW, FOG, Ed, when you guys all get to heaven are you going to continue to bicker like this for eternity? If so you're going to be a drag on things (yeah, Rooster, I know I'm goin' the other direction but I can dream can't I?). But really, can't you guys think in the longer terms and try to get along?

Oh my goodness! (or is that 'oy vey' NJ?) We need to be careful or else this could turn into...you know...civil disobedience.

NJ, You are so funny sometimes, I can hardly stand it. As I remember the rating isn't as simple as the direction of a thumb. However, to test this idea, I'm going to give everyone on this thread a thumbs-up. Let's see the effect, if any. I'm not sure anyone has given us the complete algorithm for the rating calculation - it would be interesting...but not as interesting as lunch! Later. Edited part: Ed, your wish is my command. OK...I'm waiting....feeling kind of lonely here.....(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Hello again...another thought came to mind. While you're in the area there are some other worthwhile sights to consider. First, you'll be in the same area as Ducktown, TN, the site of 'Copper Hill' a severely impacted area around an old copper smelter that has undergone decades of reclamation. When I first saw this area over 40 years ago (we don't need to dwell on the age thing), it looked like 'The Badlands' in miniature. Now it has recovered somewhat. But there's a visitor center that tells the whole story and it would be a great experience for anyone interested in the Environmental Science merit badge. A couple of years ago I helped with a high school biology text ('Biology in the Community', in case you use it) that used this story as one of the examples. I might be able to arrange for a local expert to give your guys a talk or tour. If you happen to get up to the Great Smokies, the Cherokee Indian Museum in Cherokee, NC is a really nice place (the rest of the town is kind of tacky). The story is really gut-wrenching and they don't pull the punches. The boys might find it a little boring though, you'll have to judge their interests. Also there's a folk art center in Murphy, NC not too far from the Ocoee. It has living artisans doing the real deal for blacksmithing, etc. That's fun too. Finally, I assume you'll be coming through Chattanooga from some direction. If so, there's a great overnight wild cave experience at Raccoon Mountain (physically strenuous, led by guides). We have a couple of trips to this cave scheduled for this spring. There's also a wonderful aquarium experience at the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga, and don't forget...the Tow Truck Museum, also in Chattanooga (that's right, I said, "tow truck"). Hope this helps. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Eagle69, Wow, some of my favorite rivers have already been listed. The Ocoee is a great run but as mentioned already, you should use an outfitter and guide. Make your plans well in advance because its proximity to Chattanooga and Atlanta plus its use in the Olympics make it crowded in the summer. Actually, wall-to-wall people at times. I also like the Nantahala as Greeneagle5 suggested. It is fast, fun, and cold. The waters are dam controlled like the Ocoee but Nantahala Lake releases from the bottom so the water is winter cold. In the summer there is often a fog layer just over the water because of the temperature difference between the water and the humid air. Also, it is fast enough to run multiple times in a single day. The Chattooga is more scenic and it was made popular by the book and movie, "Deliverance". And at one time, the story wasn't all that far off from reality. But today it is a National Wild and Scenic River that offers all levels of difficulty in three popular sections (actually sections III and IV are the best, II is just fun and for beginners). My advice for this river would be to put in at Sandy Ford just above the 'narrows' and take out just before Woodall Shoals. This includes some of the best of Section III and includes the fun beginning of Section IV (omitting the killers downstream). It's a fine run that includes lots of exciting rapids and drops and scenery including Bull Sluice (class V, but safe and fun). NOC can do this for you as well and they have a local outpost near the river. Also check with a company called Wildwater Limited. To the list of rivers I would add: Nolichucky up in TN, French Broad (yes, that's a river), and the New River in West Virginia if you're up to it (but this is a really demanding trip). Some of my favorites are now unfortunately under water so neither you nor anyone else will ever see those wonders again. Have fun and be safe. Drop me a personal reply when you make your decision and I might see if some local troops want to pow-wow with your guys.

It depended on the weather but sleeping pads worked great for them to use. Or if there are plenty of leaves another tarp works too. Never tried any of those targets, we just used the standard bulls-eye versions. Be careful with the balloons. If not inflated enough or if struck just wrong, a BB could come right back, I think. I guess I'm super careful with anything that involves projectiles.

Vive le 'cooties'! I had a game called Cootie a long time ago. I think they are still made by Milton Bradley, at least that's what our female minister says.

I see the irony as well as the humor. I can envision more than a few "Duh!s" or "Doh!s". I suspect Congressman Frank's was somewhat bitter humor, though, and he sure nailed it with his letter. Mr. Williams probably got a chuckle as well, though I can't vouch for his sense of humor. I don't know him well enough to judge.

Safety, Safety, Safety. Then, make sure all the cubs feel successful. Don't yell at them. Everyone gets a turn. At the end of the day, we used to have a great time picking up all the spent BBs. It helps to spread a tarp under the targets and backstops to catch them. I let the cubs take everything they could find home with them...we did a pretty good cleanup as a result.

OGE, I guess I'm guilty as charged...I think - at least I feel guilty. I'm supposed to feel guilty, right?

Hey!!!! I wanted the one you gave NJ! Don't mind Rooster...he's just miffed that the rapture happened a couple of years ago and he got left behind just like the rest of us.

Calm down, calm down. You need to get more in touch with your feminine side. I know I have and it's done wonders for me.

KoreaScouter, employing the broadest application of your definition, it seems that the term could be applied to ANY lobbying group, whether a union or a political movement. Quite recently I have heard it applied, perhaps in that sense, to the civil rights movement, the ACLU, as well as a couple of anti-defamation leagues. I suppose it will be just a matter of time before BSA and the League of Women Voters get tagged. NJ, I wish I could assume the best of intentions and motives for this administration. As it is, I am re-reading my copy of 'Leadership and Self-Deception' to understand their actions. Achilleez, I think there have been a few honest politicians. We, the public, voted them out in short order. I think that it may have been Lincoln who said, "You can't dip clear water from a muddy stream." Those politicians whom we hate so much actually MAY BE our representatives in more than one sense.

Two robins were sitting in a tree. "I'm really hungry," said the first one. "Let's fly down and find some lunch." They flew down to the ground and found a nice plot of newly plowed ground that was full of worms. They ate and ate and ate till they could eat no more. "I'm so full, I don't think I can fly back up into the tree," said the first one. "Let's just lay back here and bask in the warm sun," said the second. "O K," said the first. So they plopped down, basking in the sun. No sooner than they had fallen asleep, when a big fat tomcat up and gobbled them up. As the cat sat washing his face after his meal, he thought... (scroll down) (ready??) (you're gonna love this one) "I JUST LOVE BASKIN ROBINS."

Faaris, Welcome.

Big Dog, I was able to locate this by Graham Weeks to answer your question, I thought you might like it: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.-- Abraham Lincoln (also attr. Confucius) It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-- Mark Twain (1835-1910) A Yiddish proverb has been proposed as the origin, but if so it is preceded by, Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. -Proverbs 17:28. Graham J Weeks http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ My quotations homepage

Aristotle also explained occurrences of marine fossils in terrestrial rocks by spontaneous generation. It boggles the mind. We owe Aristotle a huge debt for all the contributions that have stood the test of time or have contributed to modern thought. However, we owe him nothing for those things that have PROVEN false. The blade cuts both directions. But what we owe more than perhaps anything else is to honor him by placing him alongside the best we have now, subjecting his ideas to the same tests, and celebrating those ideas that pass...for now.

SR540Beaver, that is a really astute observation. I hadn't considered it but I like it. As for me, I have always wondered what happened to Zorn? You don't think....nah!

The horse and mule live thirty years and nothing know of wine and beers The goat and sheep at twenty die and never taste of scotch or rye The cow drinks water by the ton and at eighteen is mostly done The dog at sixteen cashes in without the aid of rum or gin The cat in milk and water soaks and then in twelve short years it croaks The modest, sober, bone dry hen lays eggs for nogs, then dies at ten All animals are strictly dry, they sinless live and swiftly die But sinful, ginfull, rum-soaked men, survive for three score years and ten And some of us, the mighty few, stay pickled 'till we're ninety two!

Born: very last 12th day of Christmas in the first half of the 20th Century. If anyone remembers the massacre in 1979 in Greensboro, NC, when a group of Klan and Nazi members killed and wounded a number of black people at an anti-Klan rally...I was born in the same area where the Klan and Nazi members lived. That was the society I knew and understood - but I had left it long before that time. OGE, good one!

A brief reminder. Evolution does not equate to atheism. I make this observation in the same sense that I observed that science does not equate to atheism. I grant that most atheists would embrace evolution, possibly for the same good reasons that scientists do. But they are not alone. In fact, a majority of large, organized religions accept evolution. But whether one person accepts it or billions, no matter. Evolution is a rational explanation for observed variation of species that depends on no system of faith whatsoever, atheism or otherwise. Creationism, on the other hand, is a wonderful view that is manifested by many versions, depending on the faiths of the believers. OK, back to the raving and ranting...

NJ, You are so funny sometimes, I can hardly stand it.

Good point Scoutingagain. NJ, You'd probably get a lot more respect if you suddenly grew canines like the dog (maybe during the full moon?). Anyway, I would like to extol the virtues of free-range chickens. They are smart, fit, and after surviving foxes and other predators, they are fun in the end - because I can't catch them...rather I shoot them off the tree limbs whenever dumplings are on the bill of fare. The downside is that they are agressive and tend to peck me when I try to gather the eggs. Makes shooting them all the more satisfying. 'we will kill the old red rooster when she comes...hack, hack..'