packsaddle

What are the reasons for all the various Presbyterian fractures?

I confess...the wise and kindly minister who worked with me on my God and Country exhibited a great deal of love and I am grateful for it. I reflect often on my love and admiration of him as well. My mother loved me dearly and I loved her back. Same for my den mother when I was a cub and more than a few teachers. I know men my age with whom I share a loving relationship and I genuinely love the boys I work with, at least most of them. But this is not about sex. Sex, sex, sex, Rooster is that ALL you think about? You are really hung up on sex and I think it would be a big problem for me if I felt that way. Love is much, much more. It doesn't always have to be about sex. Sheesh.

OGE, I must have missed something. What was improper about the 'newt' comment, except that as a land-dweller you would have been an 'eft'? I kind of liked it. Oh yeah, maybe I missed the stuff about religions as well. Uuuuuuh, or maybe I just don't 'get' this stuff. Probably. BTW, I did like the song (there's a Lion King version?).

What was the reason for the Southern Baptists to split away and form the SBC?

Kind of late to get in now. But I'd pass it up anyway and try for a larger camp with more opportunities - like Goshen.

Yep, noticed it. A good one for my collection. Ronald Reagan used to like to speak of the "magic of the free market". Maybe that explains it.

Acco40, good one! Here's another possibility: A person who goes door-to-door seeking an answer.

Proud Eagle, the view that UUA openness to dissent and atheism disqualifies them as COs fails. It fails because UUs do not require such beliefs or their absence. Rather, you can view this in an alternative manner: the UUA welcomes many religious traditions and beliefs, including Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Theists, Buddhists, etc. In fact, this willingness to accept a broad scope of religious beliefs should make a UU church obviously qualified to be a CO. The stopper is BSA policy (regulations, whatever) on homosexuality. However, individual UUs who are avowed atheists would still be denied membership by BSA. I grant you this last thing would probably be viewed as unfair by most (but not all) UUs. But that would be their choice.

KS, that bookend is equally welcome at the end of nearly every idea. The answer to your rhetorical question can only be answered based on our knowledge of current depletion with reasonably expected changes in the future. Probably 500 years or so for coal just based on what we have in this country alone. For oil or gas, if we depend only on our known domestic reserves, not long. Including worldwide reserves, we'll probably die before we run out. You ask, 'So what?' and I join you. I'm not worried personally, because I suspect that I'll predecease you and most of the other respondents on this forum. But I do care about you guys and people who will come after. My personal thought is that nuclear energy will soon have a resurgence, especially if we can solve the nasty problem of waste management. And it is a huge potential source of energy. But my conservative view is that the largest energy source we have immediately at little cost - is to merely conserve, not waste, what we have. That to me is the truly conservative approach. The point I try to make to the students is that in order to extract those resources, the known impacts will either be large (perhaps unacceptable) or new extraction methods must be discovered (this neglects a myriad of other problems with fossil fuels). ItsTrailDay, I hope you're right. I also hope there are new technologies and lower costs for wind and solarvoltaic power even sooner. However, do try to resist the urge to go to Utah and invest in cold fusion.

Shell in WA, USA, Noting your location I just have to relate the following: A few years ago I was doing some work on the Columbia/Snake River system and I stumbled on a local natural resource type who was collecting squawfish and paying a bounty on them. (for those interested, the bounty was $3 each, later increased to $4-6 each) Now most persons don't know this but squawfish are a major predator on juvenile salmon and they have no commercial value other than the bounty which is paid to try to control their populations. Squawfish account for nearly %80 of the predation as the young salmon run to the sea. Incidentally, these squawfish are a different species from the Colorado squawfish which is an endangered species. But they are both in the minnow family (really, really large minnows). But I digress. I watched as fishermen brought these by and collected their bounties. Many of them weighed in the 2-5 pound range. Before I could stop myself, I mused outloud that perhaps if people discovered that squawfish were actually good to eat, that could create greater fishing pressure on them. I stupidly asked, "Does anyone eat squawfish?" Now I have heard approximately the same description of how to prepare: gar, carp, freshwater drum, suckers, saltwater catfish...and I could tell by the person's expression that I was going to hear it again. Sure enough, the board, the oven, the..ahem..manure, then one eats the manure and throws everything else away, ha ha. Same old story. So having 'asked for it' I took my 'medicine' thankful that I would know not to make that mistake again. So...to make a long story a little shorter here is a tasty dish we created employing a tastier creature: One or more cutthroat trout, minimum 20 inches in length (absolutely required) are cleaned and lightly salted and peppered (optional), head on is ok. In a dutch oven (not preferred), or grill, or griddle, or even on a really hot smooth, clean stone on a bed of coals, cook potatoes and just begin to sautee onions in butter (in a pan separately). After the spuds are done, slice them and lay them out as a bed for the fish. Lay the fish out on them and cover them with the mostly-cooked onions and butter. Either broil this with a really hot fire on the sides or in a really hot dutch oven with lots of coals on top. The fire works better because it's quicker. Cook until the fish is done but not beyond. Optionally, you can pour on a little melted cheese after broiling the fish. You can do this directly on hot coals by slicing the raw potatoes longwise and laying them skin down on the coals. Let them cook a bit before applying the fish. Also, don't pour on the butter (fire hazard). Anyway, this is really good. But I suppose it could just be a function of the degree of hunger. H'mm, I should try it with gar, maybe squawfish. Bon Apetite

Thanks NJ, but for some reason, I just feel cautious about this. Maybe I just find the outlook of Vonnegut or Murphy to work more often than not.

Responding to no-one particularly, I like to shock my environmental science students by informing them that eventually all the oil, gas, and coal on earth will be combusted or used some way and the only limit to the process will be market forces (price). Seems obvious to me.

FOG, have you considered the "Troop 97 Tires and Croissants"? Bet that'll be unique.

Rather than make you suffer through my own rendition of UU beliefs or history, I refer you to several sites that seem reasonable in their presentation (although very brief): http://www.uua.org/pamphlet/3057.html In this one, you will learn that UUs have churches, fellowships, and societies. Read it for the details. The local fellowship became a church after they decided to acquire a minister. http://www.uufhc.net/s021117.html http://www.uua.org/pamphlet/3600.html These short histories give some idea of how UUs came to be and why they greatly predate modern protestant flavors. Also, SR540Beaver, the precursors to the UUs in the USA arrived, along with other Puritans, on the Mayflower. Note the relationship to the Calvinists and Congregationalists. One of the other groups was a precursor to modern Baptists. UUs actually share much with the Baptists. Readers will also understand why, in our community, the scientists, academics, and artists tend to be UUs if they belong to any church. http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html Finally, the UUA principles and purposes for FOG. As FOG says, there is no creed. I know the "Apostles' Creed" in several variations - and I also know there is no similarly rigid statement in the UU religion. However, I suggest that FOG is wrong in his assertion that such rigidity is necessary to have a religion. But that is probably a matter of personal opinion. Anyone else care to disagree? Finally, without revealing the identity of the person who sent me the message, I stand by the assurance I received that should a UU church agree to BSA regulations, they would be welcomed as a CO by BSA. If that person reads this, perhaps that person will respond with a more definitive statement. Words beyond that can now be minced ad libitum (Heh, heh, I just had to do that).

We have huge successes at fundraising. The best method is to take a few little kids, put dirt on their faces and dress them in tattered clothes, and then have them stand in the median at intersections with hand-scrawled signs asking for money for summer camp. It works best when it's raining or on football weekends. We give them a cut of the profit to keep up the enthusiasm. Seriously, Bob is right on this where the 501c status is required. However, there are some types of grants that do not require that status - it's largely a function of who is doing the granting. I suppose that there is some circumstance where a granting entity might make the agreement with a troop but I can't think of what it would be (I sure wouldn't do it that way). I suppose that if a grant was given with the purpose of simply purchasing equipment or funding underprivileged children...h'mmm...how would that be different from a contribution? But the CO can potentially be the recipient of a grant. The troop can potentially participate in the grant work and they can potentially benefit from it. But the CO is responsible for completion of any grant work or products that they agreed to. If the troop walked away from it for some reason, the CO would still be left to live up to the agreement.

Long ago during one of those tortured threads on BSA and the UUs, I received a private message from a professional scouter assuring me that BSA would charter a Unitarian Universalist troop without hesitation. Of course this would assume that they would agree to abide by BSA regs. While I admit there's a small but finite probability that some UU church could choose to become a CO, I find it difficult to envision circumstances in which a UU church, faithful to their beliefs, could make such a move. It will be interesting to watch the Methodists.

Personally, I think the price is low considering what we get for it. And yes, I also own a guzzler...I just drive it a lot less. The irony I see is that if any elected official proposed, say, a 5-cent increase in gasoline tax, they would be working another job after election time. But we hand over 30- to 50-cent increases to corporations almost without comment. Interesting.

Twocubdad, having gone through this process with numerous boys (successfully) I would answer, "yes" to your question. More importantly, make sure that the dates on the Eagle application agree with those in council records. If they don't, make the necessary corrections beforehand. I am interested in the answer to Hunt's question because we just had a boy join who is not 11 and has not completed 5th grade. He also is not a cub scout. The DE was informed of all this and we asked if it was a big problem and he winked and said he'd take care of it. Can I accept the word of this pro or do I need to hold the boy's application for a while? Technically, as I see it, he has not really joined.

scoutldr, I'm also in the 'exempt' classification. However, I work on the alternative work schedule so I get to credit some of my OT to 'credit hours'. These help a lot (in addition to taking AL) for long outings and camp. The max I can accumulate is 3 days but that still helps a lot. I had not been aware of the EO but I'm also civilian so it's academic. What would REALLY be a great benefit to me would be to be able to somehow deduct the cost of my time from my taxes. BSA, if you'd like to do something really nice and convince the IRS...... Hey, I can dream, can't I?

In my experience this has never been a problem. Every trek we've done has been limited by one or more out-of-shape leaders. The boys have always been up to anything we've dished out. Good argument against smoking and obesity.

OneHour, I guess I plead guilty. I did consider the aluminum thing until I studied the mechanisms involved. Besides, Al is inescapable as you mention. Somehow, though, I have developed a taste for browned (slightly burned) eggs and cheese in the omelets. I guess it comes naturally from a liking of charred mammal flesh. But you're right, as a person who likes to suck head and eat tail, I probably worry too much. Edited part: Uuuuh, that's as in 'crawfish' for those of you who haven't had the pleasure.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

That's the Cheffy I remember! Thanks! So...are there any more culinary secrets that you care to divulge?

I'm an ASM and there are 4 others. As the name suggests we assist the SM by offering ideas and taking the lead when he can't. Sort of a tag-team approach but it works. But the SM is the big guy and we accept orders once the decision is made. We've had no problems among the adult leaders yet (at least in my memory). The troop is small so we rarely need more than two or three adults on any particular outing or activity.

Where's Cheffy when you need 'im? That guy and his troop eat very, very well. All the dutch oven stuff is great. I'm just a little suspicious of the 'eggs-in-a-bag' thing, though. I've seen the conflicting data on plasticizers in heated foods but I would like to see those studies done on this preparation technique. Maybe I worry too much.

Acco40, was someone mean to you today or are you just feeling frisky?