packsaddle

Good one, Fscouter. We abandoned the practice years ago when we noticed the huge pile of litter we had to dispose of. Seriously, if the boy learned the correct handling and use once, all that is needed is some constructive reminders, perhaps have him help teach the new scouts so he can remember better in the future.

FuzzyBear, it's "Dave", "Dave Steele", not Daniel Steele. You must be confused with the American modern classical novelist who ranks right up there with writers such as Jaqueline Suzanne and Harold Robbins. I miss anyone who can admit when they are wrong. I miss anyone who doesn't pack up their toys and go home...mad, thus setting a poor example for the boys. I miss...littlebillie. Where are you littlebillie? Edited part: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, DSteele's still out there, and he's watching us, quietly. "...making a list and checking it twice..."(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

In defence of firstpusk, if I interpret him correctly (correct me if I'm wrong, firstpusk), his objection is less theological than with the outcome of the adoption of this belief. I tend to agree that for some people, a fatalistic view of the future provides a rationale, perhaps an incentive, to conspicuously consume and devote their time to selfish endeavors. The link I provided contained evidence that some of our leaders did indeed employ that rationale. If that is the basis for firstpusk's objections I must agree. However, regarding the 'debate', here is another perspective on the topic: http://www.watchman.org/cults/endworld.htm http://www.raptureready.com/rr-date-setters.html The second link is particularly interesting because it demonstrates the plethora of previous theologically-based, failed predictions and beliefs regarding this idea (the "rapture"). If that is representative of the clarity of the theology of this idea, I conclude that everyone is equally (in)valid and my contention that it already happened, also theologically-based, is pragmatic for the following reasons: 1) There is no way to disprove it or to validate another view as superior. 2) Anyone is still free to believe or not. 3) Adoption of the view eliminates the fatalistic element (in essence, it's already too late and we lost.) 4) We are forced to decide for ourselves how to live together, now that the 'question' has been called. In this manner we can shed all that abracadabra baggage and get on with life. As a solution, it is as good as any I've heard so far but I'm still open to suggestions.

And to you and yours as well, Rooster7. As for debate, there's no way to debate something (the rapture in this case) for which there is no evidence and may not exist.

Uuuuuhhhh, this IS the internet....isn't it? Besides Rooster7, I hate to tell you but you're doing a pretty good job of whining right now. Or would that be raving and ranting? But what are you bellyaching about anyway? The rapture is OVER. DONE. HISTORY. Now we can just devote our attention to the rest of everything and make the best of it. Cookies and milk anyone?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I did ask one troop. What you say about the relationships is true part of the time. The rest were solicited donations...oops... Anyway, I informed them of our experience and they were surprised. Oh well, I guess the council simply hasn't communicated this clearly enough to all the units. As Rush Limbaugh says, 'it's all about money'.

johndaigler, I also agree. The bill, however, may serve as a successful distraction from some very real problems that are not being addressed by Mr. Frist and congress. So in addition to your argument, we also shouldn't let congress off the hook by diverting our attention from those larger problems.

I am saddened to hear of the theft but welcome to the forums. I sympathize because a favorite uncle was flimflammed out of all the family military medals a number of years back. I haven't felt very good about collectors since. I'd give you mine but I feel the same way about that medal as I do about my eagle. I agree with Trevorum. Keep watching eBay. I am amazed at the stuff that pops up there. You may even get to bid on your own stolen items.

xyrospasm? zeitgeist?

It's possible that I am a culprit in this. Bob and I had an exchange about a quote from one of his messages in another thread. I left it with a question and never heard (read) another thing from him. Whatever the reason, it's his choice to participate - or not. Edited part: OGE, I just reread your message to Ed and it made me wonder...is Bob White suffering from an illness? Do you know something about this?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I have heard noises from council about sponsoring businesses ...to the effect that we are not allowed to solicit such sponsorship. Therefore, we have no such advertisements on our trailer. Other troops do though. I suppose they merely failed to ask permission.

If spelling and grammar are the standards, it's clear why all of us were left behind.

Well....yeah. Lucky for the rest of us, too!

Ed, in today's Adam Smith world of 'enlightened self-interest', I could make that accusation accurately for nearly all organizations and individuals. Except, of course, for those few who were taken during the rapture back in 1996. In the case of the ACLU, the outcome (however self-serving you may consider it) is still the protection of our constitutional rights as interpreted by the courts. Hunt's right, your conflict is with the law itself. The ACLU is merely the catalyst.

I thought the settlement was between the ACLU and DOD. Am I wrong? If anything, it is DOD who has wised-up to the law and is now coming into compliance with it. The ACLU just brought the matter to their attention with a judicial reminder. Of course BSA can set its membership policies! Who is saying that BSA is not fully within its rights to set its membership policies? BSA is free to discriminate in any manner BSA decides. Or have I missed something?

Ed, I think the ACLU is worried more about our liberties (yours too) than about their appearance. But Merlyn and the ilk (and I suppose I fall into the category of 'ilk' as well) will be happy clams if the government stops favoring minorities with reduced liberties and starts treating everyone equally in this respect. Like I said, all we have to do is abide by the laws (and on this subject the laws are fair and clear) and all this conflict will go away.

I think OGE posed a good question. fgoodwin seems to be aware of situations where BSA or local units are discriminated against so if he will supply us with the identities, we can sic the ACLU on the offenders. But if BSA has the weight of the Supreme Court on their side with regard to being a private discriminatory organization, and if the ACLU has the weight of the Supreme Court and the constitution on their side making sure the government doesn't discriminate, it seems like all anyone needs to do is merely to stop breaking the law and everyone can have cookies and milk before bed.

I agree but to me the significance is that at least some of them knew. I nearly fell over when George H.W. Bush said in a speech back on 7 Sep 1988, "Today, you remember -- I wonder how many Americans remember -- today is Pearl Harbor Day. Forty-seven years ago to this very day we were hit and hit hard at Pearl Harbor." Yep, that was on 7 SEPTEMBER 1988. He was speaking, no less, to a veterans group and I suspect that NONE of them remembered it the way HE remembered it. Of course he realized his three-month error and later corrected his gaff. But if that WWII veteran gets confused, just imagine the video game generation! Wow, and he was head of the Central Intelligence Agency before that...

boleta, wow! A little more grist for the mill: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1206-10.htm In case that stirred some emotion, the fact is the rapture already happened back in 1996 and one or two people DID leave. The rest of us were left behind to enjoy each other's company. Bon apetite!

Hunt, nice post. I add to your last observation, or worse, they might NOT. But to expand on your earlier comment about being close to the line, I think the big distinction to be made here is where government funding (meaning OUR taxes) is invested in a program that discriminates - in this case against the non-religious. Your point about printing 'In God We Trust' on the money may be correct...not a big deal. It hardly costs anything beyond the annoyance of persons who disagree with it. But that is quite different from what I just described before.

We've also made 'em ourselves and had them custom printed. That way we had total control over design, especially the size (we made them larger). Now we really can do first aid stuff with them.

Just to add to the confusion: As I remember, in his Oscar award acceptance speech for his role in "The Killing Fields", Dr. Haing S. Ngor thanked the "great god Buddah". I could hear the gasps echoing throughout the Bible belt.

Unc, I would forgive Nixon's language in a heartbeat if his other actions hadn't resulted in silence for so many heartbeats. My response to Farah: Anyone who wants to eliminate that source of funding to the ACLU can do so instantly. The prospective defendants merely need to stop breaking the law.

Been there, done that. As the middle school boys move up to high school I enjoy watching parents' eyes widen with the realization that when I said they had no idea what marching band was going to be like, I was correct. Did anyone mention classic soccer? And lately it has been ROTC. I was frustrated with this for a while. Then I decided to just shrug it off and have fun with the guys we did do have. No problem. Don't worry, be happy.

Anarchist, thanks for the ideas. I like the plastic sheet idea and you're right about appearances being unimportant. The rain fly lost its coating years ago but rather than buy the material and sew another, I'd try recoating if there's a good chance of success. It's an old REI expedition tent and my attachment is more sentimental than anything. What am I saying, it is still a fine design.