packsaddle

Onehour, I agree. A strong committee and good den leaders make it much less time-consuming. I recommend training as soon as possible. When you do that, you will have an opportunity to get answers to most of your questions. It is important to be as clear as possible about your responsibilities. Once you have identified those, the rest is merely organization and work. And fun! I really miss the cubs.

Congratulations. Hope the sun shines everyday for the two of you. So...the political connection?

eagledad, my remark was not intended to be condescending and I apologize if you took it that way. I was curious to see how anyone would react to a suggestion of how Merlyn could possibly be admitted as a scout leader. Actually Rooster7 may have come up with a solution...port-a-john (sic) reverence. I might have to think on it a while though. Perhaps with a good magazine...?

While I was a den leader we did these things at least once per year. We would work on a different section of lake shore each time (not in the water). The boys had a great time discovering all the things that people discarded and washed up along the shoreline. Then we'd invent stories to explain the unusual items (the occasional ski, or football helmet) or we'd try to guess how many tennis balls we'd collected (or other common items). Actually I was amazed at how many tennis balls there were. And softballs. And golf balls. And beach balls. And soccer balls. Volleyballs. Footballs. Wow! We all had a great time and then we'd go out for pizza. I really miss the cubs.

Trevorum, Your restatement of my intended point is correct, I do caution you that I have no desire to be comparable to Ron Hubbard so don't expect to discover a cult of Moral Thermodyamicists out there anywhere. I admit that I inserted that remark about Merlyn to see how someone would respond. But if Merlyn were to view, say, Lord Kelvin as a higher power, I think BSA would have to choke down its objections. Or else essentially disqualify all persons for whom a deity is either a person or some other tangible object. FuzzyBear, quite right. And this is why I promote an open arena to allow us to assail ideas rather than each other. Let the dog groan all it wants, throw on another log, and keep the ideas flowing. And perhaps some libations as well.

As Ronald Reagan famously said, "There you go again...." So here I go again. Labels are not a substitute for knowledge or understanding. Actually I suppose they are a substitute in one sense, if there is little actual knowledge or understanding. Anyway, they obscure real dialogue or debate if they are used counterproductively. Here I admit that I work for the Department of Redundancy Department. Eamonn, go ahead, take that role and then listen for me to say, "I'll get you my pretty... and your little dog too!" Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I too, am sympathetic. I left the pack in good hands but one generation later the leader nearly had it die. I had moved on to the troop by that time but I worked on the CO to do something. A new CO minister arrived and he took an active interest and things turned around for the pack (and the troop). Keep the faith, Eamonn - things have a way of working out for the best if you keep trying.

This one tugs at my strings. Back when I was cubmaster, perhaps 50% of the boys had single mom families. And there was no way to prevent the few dads from taking the lead if they wanted to for their sons. So I began 'tune up' sessions for the couple of weekends or nights during weeks before the pack derby. All the boys were invited and the dads were invited to bring tools (and here's the important part) IF they were willing to freely share the tools. Of course, I brought mine. I think these 'outings' were more fun than the derby. The last tune-up session would be held with the track assembled so they could take turns racing and optimizing. Each boy had about 12 dads helping them and many of the single moms seemed relieved. I sure enjoyed the cubs. As for the actual race, we did the double-elimination thing but if I had it to do again I would consider an alternative.

eagledad, I may be able to supply an answer to your last question. And it is related, perhaps, to the supposed (by FuzzyBear) moral code employed by Albert Einstein. I can easily derive a moral code based on the laws of thermodynamics and a simple assumption that greater efficiency is 'better' or 'more moral' than lesser efficiency. I could establish this as a 'secular religion' if I thought anyone would adopt it. I would call it the church (religion?) of "Moral Thermodynamics". Merlyn could adopt this and perhaps become a scout leader. Moreover, most of the derived code would be similar, if not identical, to the elements of the code you claim to be based on belief in God. Here's the major difference: Persons ascribing to my code would do so out of their own choice, having decided for themselves that this was a good thing to do. Persons rejecting my code, having a preference for the God-based code would choose so because they need to be TOLD what the code is by a 'higher power'. Either way, the resulting code is substantially the same.

Is that the same as the adult religious award knot? The one worn by an adult that earned the award while he was a scout? Or is that a different knot?

I doubt that anyone responding to this topic needs to do any more than they have done in the past regarding enrollment. The problem seems to originate up the line someplace, past our involvement. After all, what incentive is there for a volunteer leader to 'pad' the roll? I doubt that doing something like that has even crossed the minds of most volunteers, I sure hadn't thought of it before.

That 90% part caught my attention. I would not take them on a river in that case. A lake event would be preferable. You might be able to pull off an overnight but it will depend on how far you plan to go and how quickly they learn, a little risky. Personally, I'd plan on a day trip on the water, perhaps using a campground at a lake as a base. But I tend to stress safety over everything else.

Hello, hello, is the trip on a river or on a lake? I don't think she has given us that information. Advancement_Lady, any specifics? Type of water, number of boys, adults, will it be overnight, etc.?

Welcome, newbie-cubmaster! I can still remember the day I started as a new CM, saying to myself, "It's only one hour a month" I'd go back to the cubs in a second if they needed me. Have fun, they grow up way too quickly.

Sylvar, I am curious. Why didn't all the folks upset at United Way just donate directly to BSA? That should have actually been better for both BSA and the donors. The donors would have KNOWN their dollars went to BSA and BSA would not have had to 'share' with other charities. Or have I missed something here?

I suspect this is merely a local problem, not something that pervades the organization. And although I do not have an in-depth knowledge of council workings, from what I do understand I can easily envision how one or just a few persons could pull this deception and remain undetected, at least for a while. But it isn't evidence of great intelligence by the perps, is it?

powdersons, you stated, "But, I have the right to believe and you need to respect my right to believe, which includes, in my Christian beleif at least, an obligation to try to show you that you are wrong." In this unit, if you approached the Hindu, the Moslem, the Buddhist, or the Jew and engaged in such activity, you would be met with resistance (to put it mildly) by the troop and especially by the parents of the respective boy(s). Proselytizing is not part of the BSA program. Religious belief is primarily the responsibility of the family and the parents and your attempt to show their beliefs to be false would met by a very negative response, one that, in fact, would detract from the program. Furthermore, your statement, "BSA is one of the only places where I am assured that those who will be around by children believe the same way and will show this by deed and example." would not be valid in this troop either because there most certainly would be different views and faiths. I doubt that this unit is unique in this aspect.

At Alferd Packer's first trial the judge reportedly said, "There was seven Democrats in Hinsdale County and you ate five of them." H'mmm, maybe that explains some of the red states. Wyomingi, did you notice that OGE is, ...how do I put this..., one of the offenders?

Of course not. From Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: chink Pronunciation: 'chi[ng]k Function: noun Etymology: probably alteration of Middle English chine crack, fissure 1 : a small cleft, slit, or fissure 2 : a weak spot that may leave one vulnerable 3 : a narrow beam of light shining through a chink

Rooster7, he gained my contempt the old-fashioned way, the same way my students get an 'F' or any other grade - Bush earned it. You can dismiss what I think with application of a term, but loss of life to me is an expensive price to pay for a lie, not cheap. FYI, I felt the same way about Lyndon Johnson after I understood the nature of his deception and then I voted for Nixon, of all things, who turned out to be the grandmaster of liars. Then Ford and Carter came along as two fundamentally honest men. The people made short work of them...I stand by the Mencken quote. To me a liar is a liar. Their political affiliation is unimportant. I am not one who clings to an idol or an idea after it has been uncovered as false. Know anyone who does? H'mmm? That's called a self-deception.

That's what I meant by the 'dragging us with them' part. I also repeated the administration line, "No Doubt" to friends and acquaintances. The test would be if he continued to insist after he was in the White House and knew better. Sadly, we'll never know. But we sure do about the current occupant.

scoutldr, "THey worship a car?" Not exactly. Your description would make them Americans.

OGE, I agree. A hero belongs to everyone.

Rooster7, you are aware of this and similar headlines, right? "Duelfer Report and President Bush confirm there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" taken from: http://www.newstarget.com/002298.html It is a telling thing - when the worst criticism of a man is supported by quoting him accurately. Here are a few: In the 48-hour warning to Saddam on March 17, 2003, Bush said, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves NO DOUBT that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.... The terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other." 5 February 2003: Colin Powell to the UN Security Council, "There can be NO DOUBT that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling" In August 2002, Vice President Cheney said: "Simply stated, there is NO DOUBT that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." On March 30, a week and a half after the start of the invasion, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld boasted about the weapons of mass destruction, "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." Meaning, I suppose, somewhere on the planet. 4 December 2002: When questioned about the validity (read doubt) of these claims, the White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said, "The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction IF IT WAS NOT TRUE, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it" Long ago a South Carolina politician had the occasion to describe a particular group of local politicians as: small men, scrambling to get to the top of a heap of their own dung. The description seems appropriate. I just wish they wouldn't drag the rest of us with them. I could fill pages of this forum with these quotes. Even an illiterate person must have heard these men say these things - I certainly did. I listened carefully and I do remember the reason we did this thing. Because of the lie, we rushed to war with the genious-inspired tactic of 'Shock and Awe'. Then we stormed in with a relatively small force, knowing that they would welcome us with open arms and leaving the infrastructure and a lot of arms and ammunition open to looting and sabotage. And then we disbanded their army, thereby increasing the number of able-bodied Iraqi men without employment...except these were trained in warfare so many of them DID find employment in the subsequent insurgency. THIS was the war we needed to fight? Right now? For this lie? With such apocalyptic incompetence? My heart goes out to all the good men and women who have died and will continue to die because of this lie and the families whose futures have been and will be destroyed because of this lie. The concept of an intelligence failure is ambiguous. Because the intelligence agencies actually DID state their findings in terms of uncertainty, the intelligence failure was more likely by either a monumentally stupid man and his toadies, or by us for believing him (and I was one of them). Perhaps both. But in the spirit of quotations, Rooster7, I now quote you, "I have not seen any new information that suggests that we should not have avoided this war." Worthy of Bush himself, after disentangling all the conflicting negatives, I think I quite agree.

And I have an Alferd Packer t-shirt, one of my favorites right along with the FloriBama mullet toss and the gorgeous red-head saying, well...can't repeat that here. But the A.P. t-shirt came with a long list of culinary themes from Alferd Packer days of yesteryear. And who sponsors Alferd Packer Day? Why it is the U. of Colorado Food Service, who else!? What a great sense of humor! I greatly enjoyed the few moments when the Robber Barons almost came to be. But I do really like the slugs. After all, the invertebrates are terribly under-represented as mascots.